Is My aussiedoodle is too attached to me?

[Rebecca bratter]

My loving aussiedoodle madiba follows me everywhere in the house and sleeps at my feet when I'm in the bathroom. I don't mind but I don't think it's good for,her because she won't relax or go to sleep unless she can see me or knows where I am, even though my husband is sitting with her, she always wants to be by my side. If she is asleep and I get up and walk to the bedroom, she silently sneaks in and when I turn around she is sitting there waiting for me. It's so endearing but is it normal? She's only 4 months, will she outgrow this? She also has separation anxiety if i try to leave her at home even for a minute, she freaks. She's extremely social with people and dogs but in our apartment she must be by my side. Any advice?

[Rebecca bratter]

Your points are the very concerns that I have. I don't want to foster the Velcro factor but I do love her so much and she is so so cute. Thanks for,the info on the romp, I'm going to the group now for info we will be there!

[Heather & Jake]

I'm going to be blunt here but after reading your other posts it seems as if you are making the situation worse.  If you really want to help her get over this you need to stop feeling bad and getting anxiety over leaving her.  She picks up on this and it only makes it worse.  You know she will be fine so don't stress it will all be okay!  Also I think you have been putting too much emphasis on her being independent, she's only 4.5 months!  Usually this is still very much a puppy and you can't even start formal obedience until 6 months, so enjoy the puppyhood and don't rush it.

I think you mentioned working with a trainer, and this may be a good idea but in the meantime you can try these things which helped for us: 

If she is now going into the crate at night to sleep, start moving it foot by foot closer to the door and out of the room... when you are trying to fix anxiety it does not help to keep coddling her by her being next to you 24 hrs a day, especially when you are sleeping, she can come back when the problem is solved as Jake now sleeps in our room every night.  Just because you are working on her separation, does not mean she will stop being your shadow in the future, so please don't be scared that will stop.

If you do not want to crate her when you leave, put her pillow somewhere close to the front door (~6 feet away so she's not on top of it and you), make her stay there when you start to get ready to leave and walk out the door.  It will become her spot.  When you come back inside make her stay there until you are ready to greet her, i.e. shoes and coats are off and away, bags are down etc.  You are ignoring her this entire time.  If you act all excited the second you come in the door, this also makes it harder on her when you leave, because she knows the homecoming as a super excited high energy ritual... make this nice and calm.  When you finally greet her when you come back, just give a few little pats and take her right outside to potty and then you can be more excited, and she can follow you around the house as usual.  Practice this coming and going, even if you don't have any where to go, just pick up the keys get ready and leave wait a bit and come back in... but only if she is quiet!  You do not want to come back when she is making a racket as then she learns her bark is what brings you back and this is what you are trying to stop.   Even those extremely distressful backs, you need to ignore and not come back in to.  She needs to work it out and learn that being alone is okay.  Dogs are natural pack animals and it something they need to learn to do is be alone. It is tough and you need to have tougher love to help her overcome this issue. I can't tell you how helpful this was practicing coming and going for us... it may be a pain in the butt and really hard she she sounds so upset but trust me it really works.  Start with going out and coming right back in slowly increasing the amount of time you are gone, but don't forget the ritual of putting her in her place, gathering your things, then leaving, and coming back and completely ignoring her for a few minutes then taking her outside.

I think you mentioned that currently you are home all day.  When you come back from a walk or training, have her go to her pillow by the door or her crate to take her nap... it won't hurt her to be away from you again while she is sleeping.  If you really want her to be independent, you need to help her feel comfortable where ever she is and not have you be her security blanket.

Sorry for my novel above, but I hope this all works!!  Again if you have any questions please feel free to contact me, and even if you'd like to meet up to play as I would love to meet another Aussiedoodle!

[Heather & Jake]

I forgot to add that when practicing coming and going, you also want to ignore her before you leave not only after.  If you make a big fuss saying goodbye with kisses and baby talk trying to assure her you'll be back right before going out the door, this does not help.  Best to just put her on the pillow and leave it at that, then it's not a shocking loss of attention when you leave. 

You can also try to trick her by just picking up your purse and acting like you are going to leave but going around the house doing other things so she doesn't always associate the bag with the goodbye. 

If walking out the door is still too big of a first step, the advice about the sit stays and moving further and further out of sight it a good thing as well.  I just want to add that try to end it with you returning to her where she is at first, not calling her to you, this way she doesn't think that if you get out of sight she will be able to run and follow where you go, but know that if she stays, you will come back to her.

[Rebecca bratter]

Thanks Heather & Jake, i appreciate blunt replies and your input is very helpful.  Actually I am gone all day, my husband is home with Madiba.  I've started training her to stay while I'm home by putting her on a pillow near the door and treating her.  When she stays I come back and treat her.  Sometimes we do ok but then she just can't stand it and gets up off her pillow and comes to me.  I don't say bye to her when I leave and I try to not make a fuss when I see her but as soon as she sees me she goes nuts and starts wagging her little stump (she's docked) and is so excited.  But I will try more discipline, especially for myself.  I guess I just need to know from others with experience that even if she sounds like she's in distress, that she will be alright.  One concern I have is that our training classes teach us to treat a lot, and we're using those clickers.  When I get madiba to stay on her pillow, I think she is just doing it for the treat and not understanding that it's ok to stay.  She is a treat nut, she'll do anything for treats.  How can I get her to understand it's ok to stay, if I don't treat her, she doesn't stay.  

We would love to have a play date with Jake! I just looked at his pictures on line, he is sooo adorable, he looks just like Madiba except redder, she is a blue merle.  Are you in the NOVA area?

[Heather & Jake]

Yes we are in Springfield.  We are open to meet up most weekends, but not this one as we will be at the beach :)  And thanks!  He was a true red merle as a puppy but got the silvering gene from his poodle dad and all the red faded out of his coat :( Everyone thinks he's a blue merle, but once he gets next to one you can tell the difference.

I understand about the husband being the one home during the day... hard to always get them to do the training the correct way and work on the issue when you aren't home :)  Mine works from home and since I'm in grad school, I'm home most days but not all the time and on days away, not everything is done the way I'd prefer.

That's really good to hear that you've started training on a pillow near the door, go back to where she is, and that you don't make a big deal about saying goodbye.  I know that was really hard for me as I was in the same boat; felt so bad when I left... the first two weeks the neighbor would tell me that he would go on for an hour sometimes and it broke my heart. :( However, Jake was crated, so ignoring him when we came home was a little easier as he couldn't come to us.  Jake was also (and still occasionally) a submissive pee-er so the ignoring and staying calm was essential for us.

When you come back in even if she's going crazy try to make her stay on her pillow... if she gets up tell her to go back. This will become an anchor. That is where you greet her and she will learn unless she stays there she will be ignored.  Jake now is free and he just lays down on his pillow, smiles and thumps away until I come over.  Teaching them this has a stabilizing effect as they can't go anywhere, they need to stay "on the pillow." That's the command we use and it is extremely useful for many many situations (like a broken glass in the kitchen).

Now with the getting out of sight, you want to try to keep her calm and not let her get to the super distressed phase if possible.  I'd start with the inside stuff and walking around the house with your bag to desensitize her.  Are you working on a long lead?  All training at this stage for distance you should be doing on a 20 ft leash.  Try walking behind a door where you can see her in the crack and if you see her move, step out from behind it and give her the "sit" or "on your pillow" command. No need to say "no" if she breaks, just the command of what she should be doing.

We didn't use treats with Jake as he has a sensitive tummy. If you are clicker training you shouldn't need treats... the click is supposed to be the reward.  You should only use treats heavily in the beginning to get them used to associating the click noise with doing the correct behavior.  Try to phase out the use of treats by not using them with every click.  If she breaks and doesn't stay the whole time until released she does not get rewarded.  Do this first with you in her sight at a distance before withholding treats out of sight... it's all about the baby steps.  Slow and steady, don't rush her too fast and keep training sessions short and frequent (as I'm sure you've heard a million times!).

Also if she is a treat nut, you can try freezing peanut butter inside of a kong and give it to her when you leave on her pillow.  Then she will associate you leaving with a special treat in her special place.

[Rebecca bratter]

We would love to arrange a play date when you get back from the beach, what's the best way to get in touch, just through this forum or email? So you are suggesting tethering on the long lead in the house? I haven't tried that yet but i will.  She is a treat nut but she doesn't like the things that have been recommended for aussiedoodles (we bought that Diane Klumb book).  Kong interests her for a second, she just gets the peanut butter out and that's it, she's just starting to take an interest in antlers, the hide a squirrel bores her.  She mostly loves her soccer ball, since it moves when she pushes it, it sends her into a barking frenzy, and her favorite is her bully sticks, but she just goes right through them.  She completely defies logic with the crating.  No treat is enough to keep her happy in the crate.  She will sit on her pillow for her red barn treats but whatever I put in her crate, as soon as I leave the room, she barks like crazy and I can't stand it.  I come back to the room wait until she quiets and then I let her out.  Bad, I know.  I will try tethering. 

We'd love to meet up and have an aussiedoodle play date when you are back from vacation.  Thanks for the great advice!

[Heather & Jake]

I didn't necessarily mean tethering, as I'm not sure how that would help with the separation anxiety. Typically when you are training to get distance it always a good idea to train on a long leash which you are holding so you can give a quick non-verbal correction if need be.  If she is not on a leash the only option is a verbal correction and many times this just doesn't work.

Have you tried freezing the peanut butter inside the kong?  That's what takes awhile to work at... plain pb is super easy to get out and does not distract them very long.

As for her crate training, it's really tough. Some dogs just really don't like it, and if you can't stand the whining and always rescue her it's even harder.  However, if she's sleeping in there comfortably at night, I really think this is a great sign that it's not the actual crate she dislikes.  The best and easiest thing to do would be to each night move it closer and closer to the door and then eventually out of the room.  I truly believe it sounds as if she has you wrapped around her little paw and it's harder on you than for her... especially since you originally said she only makes noise for about 2 minutes, this shouldn't be too hard of an issue to fix.

Let's keep in touch through email to arrange a play date! Once I meet Madiba it may be easier to exchange ideas on how to help you guys, and I can recommend a few trainers in the area we've worked with.  In the meantime it's just staying strong on your end, trying to not cave to her distress calls so she learns it's okay to be alone and that her making noise will not bring you back.

[Rebecca bratter]

Look forward to it, [e-mail].

[Cathy, Fozzie & Shaggy]

Stand next to the pillow she is laying on, stand straight, not looking at her and every few seconds, at first, bend down putting the treat ON THE PILLOW BETWEEN HER PAWS, marking it with a " good stay". When her stay is reliable next to you, take a few steps away wait, a few seconds then mark "good stay and treat on the pillow between her paws. Repeat over time making the distance greater. If she breaks the stay do it again at a shorter distance. Make sure you end your practices with a successful stay.

[Cathy, Fozzie & Shaggy]

For almost 14 years I had a shadow named Gus who followed my EVERY step. I was the first thing he looked for when coming inside and he was the first thing I saw in the morning as he sat staring at me waiting until I stopped hitting snooze and got up. He didn't destroy things and could be left alone without problems. With the passing of Gus, I've lost my shadow, the bathroom is empty, and mornings are not quite as bright. Enjoy the time your puppy wants to be with you. Let her follow you but you don't have to engage her in play the whole time as she may come to depend on you to entertain her at all times.

[Rebecca bratter]

I'm so sorry about Gus. Even now if we put madiba in daycare for a few hours so we can go to an event, until she gets home, the house feels too quiet and empty. My desire is to just let het do what she does but continue to teach her to be independent as well. Right now I am working from home and she sleeping with one eye on me, it i go to the bedroom she gets up and follows. I guess my concern is more from the point of view of her getting stressed out by always following me and not being able to relax. When I'm home I'm usually moving around a lot so she does too, until I settle in. As long as it doesn't stress her out then it doesn't bother me.

[Cathy, Fozzie & Shaggy]

Thank you, Rebecca.