Puppy keeps having Diarrhea :( Help!

[Samantha & Charlie]

So I had to switch Charlie (4.5 months) from Great Life grain-free to Fromm Puppy Gold because Great Life was too rich on his tummy and he always had diarrhea.

 

Well, over the past day, I noticed his stools were starting to get runny. What's odd is that they always appear normal in the morning but are horrible in the evening. Tonight, he had the worst diarrhea I had ever seen. Poor guy :(

 

He has been on Fromm for about a week now. I feed him 2.5 cups daily and he has two servings. I always mix pumpkin into his food to help with digestion. But now this is just worrying me. What should I do???

 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Thanks, F. :) 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

One more important bit of advice. Hopefully the vet mentioned this, but just in case he/she didn't, it's crucial that you not give the probiotic within 2 hours of the metronidazole. 

[Samantha & Charlie]

She didn't. Should I be looking into another vet? He didn't see the doctor he typically sees but are all vets this bad with food education?

 

But thank God I didn't give them at the same time. What would have happened?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The probiotic would have been useless. Metronidazole kills all bacteria in the gut, the good and the bad. The purpose of giving probiotics is to replace the good gut bacteria which is necessary for proper digestion and stool formation. Sadly, many puppies who have been given metronidazole for undiagnosed GI issues have ended up having chronic ongoing GI problems from bacterial imbalances in the gut. Many of these owners have posted here looking for diet help for these dogs over the years. 

Unfortunately, most vets are not knowledgable about food and nutrition. This is really not much different from human medical doctors. They do not study nutrition in vet school or med school, other than basic courses given to all medical personnel, including nurses and physical therapists. The big difference is that your doctor doesn't sell you food. (Or drugs, which is another whole issue). Keep in mind that the vet makes the same profit on Rx food that a store or internet retailer makes. (Also on the probiotic, which is made by Iams) There is definitely a conflict of interest there. It is not that the vet is knowingly selling you something that is bad for your dog; she just doesn't know any better. Hill's and Purina provide her with the propaganda information and most of the time, the vet doesn't even know what is in the food or how it helps. The salesman says "this formula is for GI issues, this formula is for allergies" and the vet doesn't look into it any further. If you asked, what is in this food that will help clear up the diarrhea, the vet will most likely not be able to answer that question. Not because she is a bad vet, but simply because she is not a nutritionist or dietician. 

[Robin & Josie]

Samantha:

I'm sure what Karen says is true re: the lack of nutrition education in vet school. It's, frankly, the same thing with people physicians.

Having said that, I think it was the right thing to go to the vet and I'm glad you did, if only for peace of mind. You can't cure Giardia or other parasitic issues with food.

For what it's worth, my Wheaten Terrier, who lived to be 15 and a half and was always healthy except for her sensitive stomach, which she had since she was a puppy, was eventually on ID food for years. It certainly is not what caused her death (she had a stroke), and she did live a fairly long life for her size. If not for the stroke, she probably could have gone another year, at least, but she was failing in vision, hearing and activity level, so maybe not...

In any case, if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't panic about the ID for a few days and I would definitely follow Karen's advice re the probiotic, medications etc. Then return to a good quality food. If you prefer, you can always feed boiled chicken and rice or even drained low fat hamburger meat and rice instead of the ID. I think the ID is just a bland food, as are the above. He will do fine with either. My vet also recommends abstaining from food for 24 hours so after a bout of diarreah or vomiting, just to give the digestive system a rest. 

Don't feel scolded. Karen has, obviously, spent a huge amount of time researching this stuff and applying it to her Jack. I find it excellent supplemental information, and Karen - a huge thank you for all your efforts!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You're welcome, Robin and thank you for the kind words. 

[Samantha & Charlie]

No I appreciate the advice, I truly do. I just feel so lost when a vet recommends me something (and I feel I should be able to trust my vet) and then people say it's not worth giving him. I just get confused and more irritated at the situation because I want Charlie to feel better asap. So I gave him the Prostora an hour or so ago. I guess he can take the other med in a little bit?

 

Does he need to be given yogurt at the moment or hold off?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The yogurt is also providing good bacteria, so it doesn't really matter when you give it except that the same rules apply regarding allowing at least two hours before or after the metro.

[Robin & Josie]

And, by the way, Josie had a little bout of minor diarrhea a couple of weeks ago (with a little blood, which is really what concerned me) and the vet told me the same thing - no food for 24 hrs. and then ID for a couple of days. If it persists, come in for a fecal test.

After reading everything here, I politely declined the ID and fed the hamburger and rice instead. She bounced back in a day or so.

I didn't have the benefit of this forum when we had our Wheaten or I probably wouldn't have gone with the ID then either.

Josie eats Fromm and has her entire life so far, and does very well on it, although she's not a big eater at all, contrary to the many dogs on this site...

I hope Charlie will bounce back soon. Please let us know!

[Samantha & Charlie]

Should I not give him the I/D and something else? He has two more cans I'm supposed to feed (1 can a day). And should I look into Fromm grain-free? I know its the adult bag but I have heard if the dog food is a really good brand, you can give a puppy the adult version.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I would try feeding some homecooked food for a few days. Many people use plain boneless skinless chicken breast and white rice. Plain lean ground beef (not less than 85% lean) can be subsituted for chicken, making sure to drain off as much grease/fat as possible. (I rinse it in a strainer under hot water after cooking). Since JD does not do well with rice or most grains, I use plain baked, mashed sweet potatoes instead of rice- this has the added benefit of lots of fiber, which helps with stool formation. It's also easier, with less clean up. You can bake a big sweet potato in the microwave in 7 minutes, peel it with your fingers after it cools, and mash it with a fork: no pots to clean up. :) 

I use a mixture of 50% meat or chicken and 50% potato or rice. The yogurt can be added, too. If you use sweet potatoes, omit pumpkin. 

I'd feed this for a few days until the stool firms up, then gradually add in the kibble to get him back on track.

I honestly would not introduce any new kibbles at this point. It will only confuse the issue. If you switch kibble and there is an improvement, will that be from the metronidazole and probiotics, or from the new food, or a combination of all factors? No way to tell. There is something going on with digestive system, and we don't know what, or what will help. It's very important in this kind of situation that you make only one change at a time, to help you determine what is working and what isn't. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

If you look at the ingredients in the I/D, you will see that there is no medicine or any therapeutic ingredients in there. It's just a bland, very poor cheap quality diet. So it's not as if by not feeding it, Charlie won't be getting something that might help fix the problem. The homemade diet is just as bland, and a lot more nutritious.