Royal Canin

[Lucy & Ellie]

Hi!

I'm new to the world of doodles and dogs/puppies in general.  Our Lucy is just over 9 weeks old.  We brought her home at 8 weeks and the breeders had been feeding her Royal Canin.  We took her to the vet who said it was a good food.  

But from what I read, it's not a great food!  However, as of now anyway, Lucy is doing fine.  No eye good, regular stools, nice coat.... etc.  Should we stick with what's working or move to something better?

Also the vet was sure to tell my kids not to  give her people food.  And I should have asked, but does that just mean no process human junk?  We can give her things like carrots, egg, etc... right?

[Vivian & Mojo]

My vet also recommended Royal Canin but I choose not to feed it because the ingredients such as corn and corn gluten meal and wheat gluten, vegetable oil...that's very vague not stating what kind of vegetable??? Also I don't like the brewers yeast, it can cause bloat and some dogs are allergic to yeast.  I chose a food from Doodlekisses recommended food list and now my puppy is almost 2 years old and in perfect help.

[Leslie, Yogi & Maci Bear]

We give Yogi people food as training treats like boiled chicken, pieces of hot dogs, peanut butter and yogurt. But we never feed him from our plates or as we are eating to avoid him begging. His food is prepared separate of ours.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

If you've been reading our discussions here in the Food group, you may know that there is no nutritional education in vet school, and that the vet is the wrong person to ask about feeding recommendations. This may seem shocking until you think about the fact that you really don't talk about food with your doctor, either. Vets and doctors are experts in medicine, but not usually in nutrition. That's a separate course of study. 

The vets are "educated" about dog food by the Hill's, Iams, and Royal Canin salespeople whose food they sell at the same profit the stores do. 

Royal Canin is owned and made by Mars, Inc. Foods made by the multinational corporations are not recommended here because of their sourcing, primarily. The ingredients are purchased by third party food brokers and imported from China. Pet food products containing ingredients from China have killed thousands of pets and made thousands more permanently ill from kidney disease. There is also a lot of info about this here in the group, too...about 5 years worth, lol. 

Please check our Recommended Brands list for the brands we do recommend. 

There is nothing wrong with giving your dog fresh human foods; most of us here do it. Eggs, MOST fruits and vegetables, and other "people" food is fine. lots of discussions here about that too. However, it's probably a good idea that your kids don't do it. For one thing, a lot of the foods that kids like can be poisonous to dogs, including chocolate, grapes, raisins, and the xylitol in sugarless gum and candy. (There are many others. Check Danger group for a full list.) Kids giving a dog a bite of something they themselves are also eating at the same time can also lead to a child being bitten in the face as the dog mistakes that next bite for "his".  You must never "share" the food you are eating with a dog. It should only be given in their own bowls at their own mealtimes, or as a reward for doing something right. Never feed a dog from the table or from that bowl of popcorn in your lap while you watch TV, lol. It leads to begging. 

Whether you want to stay with the Royal Canin or not, it is imperative that you do not change your puppy's diet for at least two weeks after she comes home. No new foods, no new treats, nothing other than what the breeder was feeding, for many reasons. Once the two weeks is up, if her digestion seems okay, you can add, change, or whatever you want to do, but make only one change at a time, and do not introduce more than one new food or treat at a time, until you see how she tolerates it. A LOT of doodles have digestive issues, it's best to do all you can to avoid that if possible.   

[Lucy & Ellie]

What great information - thank you!  I am new to these boards and I've been looking into SO many parts of it.  From puppy training to .... well now feeding.  I have a lot to learn and I'm anxious to take it all in.  

So digestive issues... I would look for vomiting or different stools??  I'm glad to know that I should be watching for this.  I will be sure to be very careful!

Thanks for taking the time to help this newbie out!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The biggest problem we see with new doodle puppies is giardia, which is a parasitic intestinal infection that causes very frequent diarrhea. It's what used to be called amoebic dysentery or "Montezuma's revenge" in human tourists, lol, and it's highly contagious. A lot of doodle puppies come home from the breeder with it. It has a 10-14 day incubation period, so you don't always see it right away. If you enter giardia in the DK search box at the upper right corner of every page here, you'll get tons of posts. 

But vomiting and other digestive upsets are also common. A lot of these dogs seem to have very sensitive stomachs. So go slow with changing or adding food or treats. Stay away from rawhides, stay away from any edible product that you are not one hundred percent sure is sourced in North America, and you cannot always be sure from the packaging. Do not even look for dog food, treats, or chews at Walmart, K-Mart, Costco, Target, Walgreen's, or the grocery store, there is nothing there that is safe to give your puppy.  

[Lucy & Ellie]

We have had her for 13 days now... so I will for sure be on the lookout for giardia in the next couple days.  

So I'm looking on Amazon at Origen http://www.amazon.com/Orijen-Puppy-Dry-Dog-Food/dp/B00BM56P38/ref=s...

Looks like that's what I'd get if I wanted to try that brand, right? (BTW, Lucy is a mini - they think she'll be 30-40 lbs).

So if we ordered the food now, we will have had Lucy for over two weeks by the time it arrives, so could we go ahead and start switching?  Or should we wait a little longer?  

And Deb, you say ever so gradually - can you explain how to do it slowly?  Like... mix 1/4 in one day... two days?  Then...?  Thank you so much!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Buy the smallest size bag of food until you know that it works for her. I would try to just buy it locally. Next time around you can order a big bag online.

There is such a huge difference between the two foods that it will be hard to figure out feeding amounts during the transition, but do the best you can. You feed less of the Orijen than the R.C. Start with 3/4 of the amount of RC you normally would give her, and add one quarter of the amount of Orijen recommended for her age & size. Do that for two days. Then do 50/50 for two days. Then give 3/4 Orijen, and 1/4 RC for two days, then go to 100% Orijen. 

You can expect some gas for a couple of weeks as her system adjusts. 

[Deb's Yarrow and Schatzi]

Maybe Yarrow just has an ultra sensitive system. But, if I tried to up the ratio of new food too quickly for her she would get diarrhea and I'd have to give her tummy time out with white rice and pumpkin puree.  Then I'd have to start the whole transition over again. 

So, based on that experience, I  think it doesn't hurt to be patient and cautious.  I'd introduce the new food more slowly than may seem necessary.  Based on my experience, I'd start with 1/8 for the first couple or 3 days. Then 1/4 for a couple or 3 days...

And is there not a local shop you can buy from?  Orijen has a great return policy if Lucy doesn't like it or if it doesn't agree with her.  You'll be able to take it back and try something else.

We had to drive quite a distance to get quality food.  We bought 3 different products and when we had a clear winner, we returned the others and stocked up on the chosen food.

All that said, I'm very happy I learned how to read and understand the ingredient label on a bag of dog food and Yarrow's no longer on that Royal Canin junk food. (That's my opinion)

[Deb's Yarrow and Schatzi]

As Karen advised, let Lucy get settled in before introducing new food or treats.  My Yarrow came to me on Royal Canin.  She's now 20 weeks old and thriving on her new food.  But finding the right food can be a challenge, as it was for us.   My advice to you is to take the introduction of a new food ever so gradually.  This cannot be overstated.