New Puppy Crate Training Issues

[Kati & Shawn]

We just brought home a new goldendoodle puppy on Saturday. Both nights right after we have put him in the crate, he will whine and howl,  then will poop in there...creating a huge mess. We used a puppy pee pad the first night, then tried removing it the second night, as we were told "they wont poop where they sleep" but sure enough he did and we put the puppy pad back in. We were able to get him to poop outside finally yesterday, and in the middle of the night last night. There was poop in his crate when I came home at 11:30 and again at 2:00, where he had also peed on his pillow. Should we be using the puppy pad? I have read that they need it if you are not able to watch them, and other people say they shouldn't get used to going to the bathroom in there. 

Any advice that anyone could provide about crate/potty training in and outside the crate would be great. 

Thanks!

Kati, Shawn, and Maverick

[Kati & Shawn]

We also get up to take him out every two hours to try to avoid accidents, took up his water early last night, and have made ourselves available to come home and take him out throughout the day.

[Marie and Hoka]

We have had several dogs and several different experiences with how they have trained the best.

Our current pup is almost 14 weeks old, we brought him home about 9.5 weeks.

We used a gated off bathroom for longer periods (overnight and when unattended more than an hour) when we thought he might be unable to stay dry.  During the day I use the powder room and at night the master bath where he can see us. We introduced the crate more slowly, only feeding him in there and placing random treats in there for a few days.  We gradually increased the time in the crate and used it both for meals and when leaving home for up to 3 hours.

I have never used any pee pads, just an empty crate with a safe chew toy.  I do feed him all meals in there and leave him about 15 minutes extra after eating at this point. Then directly outside.  He does well in the crate and has only soiled it with urine once... at which time he was hysterical to get out.

I take him out obsessively to try to catch as many episodes outside as possible and give treats for successful trips outside.  He is really food driven, so we are lucky of that.  We have also trained him to ring the bells hanging on back door to go out.

If they are babies, I think there is no getting around the need to just take them outside obsessively for the first few weeks. 

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[Andi, Lilly and Levi]

Katie,

How big of a space do you give your puppy to sleep in the crate?  I have an adjustable divider in my crate and I gave the puppy enough room to sleep with the divider but no so much room that she could roam.  You may be doing this already but just thought I would ask.

[Kati & Shawn]

Well we have given him enough space to lay down and then space to pee so this may be the issue. I have been told to use them by some, and told not to use it so I'm a little lost. I  am starting to think he is pooping out of anxiety. He barks and howls in there for a couple of minutes then poops, even when he was just outside doing nothing. I don't know how to help him, and I hope this is normal? 

[Marie and Hoka]

I definitely agree to use a crate small enough that they can only lay down, stand and turn.  No extra space to pee and get away from it.  And no pee pads.  They should learn to stay completely dry in the crate.  Eating in the crate helps this, they want to keep their eating space clean.  If we are leaving him when we think it is too long to realistically hold it, then we do not crate but instead use the powder room with a gate.

Hoka is 14 weeks and is actually doing great with the house breaking and crate, but all of our dogs have been a little different in their training success... but they all got it eventually.

[Emily, Bentley, & Maserati]

We make a game of getting used to the crate in the beginning. We will call the puppy and say "home" which is the word we use for crate and toss in a few pieces of kibbles, pup goes in, door shuts and a few more pieces. After about 5 minutes we open the door and say "free" for the puppy to exit. This game is repeated multiple times and the length in the crate increases as you go. Once the pup starts going into the crate willingly we only toss a few pieces of kibble once the crate door is shut. I do mean only 2-3 pieces of kibble, not handfuls, just enough to entice and be rewarding. 

I would use the divider, a space that is large will encourage them to go to the bathroom in it. As for the not going to the bathroom in the crate we are really diligent about keeping puppies on a potty schedule and in the crate, carried outside, go potty, back inside to play, and then crate games and the crate time for a while. Repeat! 

[Toni Clayton]

Emily..so glad you replied with this...we're going to start playing the crate game too...plus I love that you call it home! I'm going to do that too!

[Jordan & Daisy]

Hi Kati! Congrats on your new pup! We are also crate training and got Daisy at around 9 weeks, she is now 14 weeks and is doing great with potty training.

My honest advice is NOT to use the pee pee pads, ever. These pads get the pups used to the idea of going potty in the house which completely works AGAINST house training them. Yes, the crate should only be large enough for them to lay down in and stand up in, not for them to be able to lay in one corner and potty in another. We have a divider in Daisy's crate to avoid this. I would get rid of the peepee pads asap, just keep taking him outdoors throughout the day (fairly often, we were doing every 25 min or so) and when he goes potty outside give him LOTS of praise and a treat. If you catch him going potty inside the house give a firm "NO" and pick him up immediately and bring him outside. If he goes potty outside, make a big deal about it again and reward him with treat. It sounds like your pup may be a little harder to housebreak than Daisy was BUT as long as you are constantly taking him out, rewarding him every time he goes potty outside (treat and praise), and telling him "no" when he goes inside (only if you catch him in the act, not after he's already done it), he will eventually get the idea that potty is for outside. 

As far as him going potty in the crate, does he always go immediately when you put him in? Or just if he's left in there for a while and can't hold it? They say they can only hold their potty however many months they are plus one. So a 2 month old puppy can hold it for 3 hrs. 

He may also be scared of the crate or dislike it. Start feeding him all of his meals in the crate, this helped Daisy a lot. And also we taught her "go in the crate" command, and every time she listened we gave her a treat. So she associates the crate with food and treats now. Good luck! 

[Shannon and Otis]

Kati-

Congrats on your pup!

I got Otis at about 12 weeks - but I agree with what most people are saying. It sounds like your crate is way too big. My vet told me to leave enough room in my crate for water (of which I did not agree with, so I did it once, and that was when Otis urinated in his crate). When I made his crate smaller for him (enough room for him to turn around in it) he has not gone to the bathroom in his crate at all).

When I first got Otis I took him to the bathroom every hour on the hour, and he did go to the bathroom. I praised him and rewarded him for the first two weeks. Now, I can take him out every 3-4 hours, and at night he can hold it the full 8 hours in his crate. He has been extremely good about it. 

I also feed him in his crate, after I switched his food, and work with him to love his crate by giving him a special high value treat when he goes into his crate. He only gets this high value treat when he goes into his crate and lays down and is quiet. If he barks and whines he does not get it the treat. So he is slowly learning about his crate and his home.

I would recommend NOT using the pee pee pads, I ran into a woman on the street yesterday in NYC who has a doxon and she asked me how Otis knows what to do when he gets outside, and she said she uses the pee pee pads and he doxon has no idea what to do when he gets outside because she has been training him using the pee pee pads in her apartment. Like the others have said, it can confuse a dog, and work against the house training.

Best of luck to you guys! 

[Lori, Quincy & Frankie]

no pee pads

keep taking him out as frequently as possible and lots of praise and even treats when he goes

small crate space as suggested - not so much room to pee/poop and not have to lay in it

thoroughly clean down the crate with enzyme cleaner such as Nature's Miracle to get rid of the scent -he may think this is the spot in his crate based on the residual odor that a dog's nose can smell 

patience- this too will pass!  

[Rosemary (Ro) and Enzo]

I know it is tough, but definitely no pads! They have a scent attractant to lure them to the pad. It is one bad habit you will have to break later on.
Also, agreed, cut down on his space in the crate,
Out every 45-minutes to an hour, out after just waking up, out after eating.....puck up water around 7-8 pm ish.
If he is going while you are out with him( and no out on his own) and then again in the house...stay out longer with him. Enzo was a double pee'er.....always squatted twice as a young pup. Only then, did in know it was safe to bring her back in. Don't forget, lots of praise after each pee and you could even treat.

[Kati & Shawn]

So last night was definitely better. We fed him in his crate, took up his water early, took him out to pee right before bed, and settled him into his crate when he was REALLY tired. We don't yet have a divider but we put a large box in the crate that sections it off nicely. He did not have any accidents in his crate and slept longer than usual before he started whining to go out. He was going in the crate right when we would put him in there so my thoughts are that the crate might have made him anxious. Once we settled him in and got him to lay down and rest in there...shutting the door became much easier.