THE FOOD GROUP GUIDELINES

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

WELCOME TO THE FOOD GROUP- PLEASE READ BEFORE STARTING A NEW DISCUSSION!

We started this group because of personal experiences with many of the issues that are commonly discussed on dog forums regarding food, and because these experiences have led us to do extensive research in an attempt to obtain FACT-BASED knowledge of these issues, rather than relying on anecdotes, myths, and junk-science, much of it put out there by people who are trying to sell something. The 2007 pet food recalls in which thousands of dogs and cats died or were permanently sickened by foods that contained melamine from China substituted for glutens had a profound effect on some of us, and this group was started as an attempt to help educate others on manufacturing practices and pet nutrition so that they can avoid losing beloved pets because of unacceptable foods made by "Big Dog Food" companies. There are also many issues we would like to explore. We thought it would be helpful to put all of these questions, information, and feedback into one place here on DK where everyone can find it, contribute to it, ask questions, and learn together.  
 You can start a new discussion if you have a question, or you can continue in an existing discussion if you prefer. Please do try to use the search feature before starting a new discussion, though, to help eliminate duplicate discussions on the same topics. You can search through past discussions for a topic by clicking "View All" at the bottom of the Food Group discussion forum, and then entering a word or phrase in the box. You will usually find lots of info and possibly the answer to your question. There is a wealth of information here from many good sources.  

Products on our recommended lists have been screened not just for the ingredients themselves, but also for the sourcing of the ingredients.

Membership in this group is voluntary. Everyone is free to feed their dog whatever they choose, but it is assumed that you are here because you want to learn about better nutritional and commercial food options. All questions are welcome. Proselytizing, however, is not welcome. If you want to feed your dog Beneful or Ol' Roy, that's your right, and if you want to learn why those foods may be dangerous to your pet's health, we're happy to tell you. But recommendations for these, Iams, Purina, Hill's, and other products  that have killed other group members' dogs are not okay here, and may result in your being suspended from the group. Similarly, if you believe that the only proper way to feed a dog is with a prey model raw diet, that all kibbles are harmful, and/or that raw food or "holistic" diets and/or supplements such as coconut oil will cure diseases or health conditions, this is not the right group for you. We are fact based. Anyone recommending raw feeding or any type of holistic diet or supplement as a cure or treatment for allergies or illnesses will be suspended from the group.  

Welcome, and thanks for reading!
PLEASE NOTE: WE ASK THAT YOU NOT POST ANY RECOMMENDATIONS FOR PRODUCTS FOR WHICH YOU RECEIVE ANY TYPE OF COMMISSION OR COMPENSATION, NOR ANY LINKS TO ADVERTISING. THANK YOU.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You do not need a "large breed" formula, they are designed for the giant breeds that are expected to top 80 or 90 lbs as adults and who do not reach full skeletal growth until well into their 2nd year.

Actually, the differences between "large breed" formulas and regular puppy formulas have nothing at all to do with protein; it's about calcium, and about calories.  The idea is to prevent the dog from gaining too much weight or putting on too much bone mass too quickly, which can contribute to orthopedic problems in the giant breeds.  The protein contents are usually the same in large breed formulas as in regular formulas, and at any rate, the protein levels in any formula that meets AAFCO standards are not "detrimental". Protein is the natural source of calories for dogs. :)

Natural Balance was sold to Del Monte, and is no longer recommended for that reason.

[Marilyn and Sherlock]

Thank you so much, Karen.....there is so many places to research that it all runs together at the end....thanks again....

[Bonnie Barber]

I have learned so much from this group and heavily rely on the informed responses I have read. I just now read the entire post above outlining conditions for membership. I was surprised to read the policy regarding those who advocate for prey model raw diets and those who advocate against kibbles. I wasn't aware of these restrictions and found them interesting. I'm assuming that, basically, zealots promoting those feeding practices are not welcome. My prime goal is to feed my three precious dogs foods that are beneficial to their health and longevity. Apparently, there are opposing opinions about which foods accomplish those goals of mine.

With that said, my real question is what foods or food combinations are best for my dogs.

Currently, LucyLou, my 12yo 7lb nearly toothless Malti-Poo gets 3 one-oz Primal Frozen Raw Beef cubes and one probiotic daily. She is thriving on this. Is this diet sufficient for her needs? No other health issues at this time.

My newly acquired 8yo 16 lb male ShihTzu rescue dog, Butchie, gets 5 one-oz Primal Frozen Raw Beef cubes and one probiotic daily. We are trying to hold his weight down. He likes to sleep rather than run around outside. He came with ear infections and incessantly licks his feet. We have changed raw from beef to chicken to see if the licking was allergy based. No change. We took away his kibble to regulate his weight. We had to have his ears cleaned under sedation to abate the infection he came with. I am told to clean his ears up to twice a week.

Our other newly acquired 8yo female Standard Poodle of 44 lbs., Allie, is fed 4 frozen raw beef cubes, 2/3 cup Orijen Adult kibble, 1/2 can Zignature fish food daily. This seems to maintain her weight. She is a hyper dog who loves to run, jump, and be active.

In order to explain why none of them are Doodles, we were searching for a Doodle rescue. When we learned of Allie and Butchie, we knew we had to take them and did not want to see them separated. I hope we can stay in this group, even though our search for a Doodle ended with a Poodle and a scruffy friend!

Anyway, I am also wondering if the diets we are feeding our dogs make any sense. I am also wondering if those who feed kibble supplement it with other foods. It seems that most people talk about the approved kibbles on this forum.

Thanks for your comments. I'm sorry this is so long.
Bonnie

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Bonnie, when we talk about the "prey model raw diet", we're talking about "homemade" DIY diets where people are giving their dogs just raw meat and bones from the butcher or other sources. A raw chicken quarter for dinner, for example. Commercial raw products like Primal are usually balanced diets and we include them on our recommended brands list.

When I first encountered the "prey model" raw feeding websites, B.A.R.F, diets, etc., I was struck by two things. One, the abundance of absurdly inaccurate, unfounded health claims (especially the idea that raw diets can cure allergies),  and two, the vehemence and outright viciousness with which raw feeding advocates defended their ideas and the disdain with which they regarded any other kind of feeding. It reminded me of certain types of extremist religious groups, lol, and I'm not the only one who has noticed that. On another doodle forum, I was actually attacked and accused of killing my dog because I wasn't feeding him raw food. I have seen many discussions on various forums where people whose dogs suffer from severe allergies are advised that feeding them a hunk of chicken instead of any kind of kibble will cure what ails them. Obviously, this kind of thing is not only hurtful but harmful. Raw food cannot cure anything, period. That's a fact. When a dog needs medical treatment and his owner is advised to ignore all of the scientific knowledge and instead feed him a hunk of raw chicken, the dog is being harmed. When a dog has an immune-mediated disease which requires medication to save his life and someone tells his owner to feed him a hunk of raw chicken instead, the dog is being harmed. That's why we don't allow that here, just as we don't allow someone to recommend that anyone feed their dog Beneful. We don't want any advice in this group to cause harm to anyone's dog. We are trying to help dogs here, not harm them. :)
There are all kinds of acceptable ways to feed a dog, and all kinds of acceptable diets. I would add that food doesn't play as big a role a role in many health issues as most people think it does. Food is only food. It provides energy and nutrients to sustain life. A wholesome diet alone will not prevent every possible health issue, and it definitely won't cure any of them. 

Your dogs' diets sound fine to me, and you sound like a great dog mom. :)

[Bonnie Barber]

Thanks, Karen. I always appreciate that you freely and willingly share your expert knowledge and sensible approach to feeding. While I feel confidant that Lucy and Butchie are doing well on their Primal raw, I continue to ponder how to best feed the 44 lb Allie. I think her current combination of raw, canned and kibble is okay for now, along with the probiotics for all. The time may come that I have to be concerned about the high cost of these foods and have to find a healthy but less costly alternative. That concerns me.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You might price out what it would cost to feed Allie one of the Honest Kitchen formulas with some of your own cooked meat or poultry added. That way you could eliminate the kibble and the canned food, and I'm pretty sure the HK is less expensive than the Primal.  

[Bonnie Barber]

I will do that! Thanks.

[Gail K. and Henry in Ca.]

I have a 10 week puppy that has been on Kirkland Natures Domain Puppy  chicken & Pea formula.   Is this a good puppy dog food?   Thanks for any info.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

No. Owned and made by Diamond, which has had more recalls than any other manufacturer out there. Sourcing is a problem.
Here is a link to our recommended brands list: https://doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/recommende...