An update on Woody & possible long term effects of metronidazole

[Jill, Woody & Maxi]

I am one of the many owners whose puppy (now 3 years old!) came home from the breeder at 8 weeks with loose stools, diarrhea, pudding poop, whichever you would like to call it.  After weeks of negative fecals, we finally received a positive fecal for giardia.  Our first vet prescribed a course of metro, which temporarily cleared it up, then, back again to diarrhea. Course after course of metro, hills I/D food, a prescription of clay (what was I thinking?!?!) 2 vet changes, more metro, (finally) Panacur..and then my breeder told me about Doodlekisses.  By this point, Woody was 5 months old, so this treatment has been going on for 3 months, with no resolve.  To make a long story short, after DK, and the help of Karen and friends I learned about the importance of a quality dog food, and the importance of treatment for giardia.  Throughout those 3 months, never once did I (or was I told by a vet) to give a probiotic..so Woody had 3 months of metro kill the bad bacteria in Woodys intestines…along with the good bacteria.  We tried all quality foods, and nothing would work..until The Honest Kitchen, Embark..and even then things still weren't perfect…we were finding pieces of undigested food in his stools.  After a bout of acute pancreatitis (from adding ground lean turkey to his Embark) We finally decided we need to take this further than our regular vet.  

We made an appointment at Cornell University Animal Hospital, where we found out Woody has an inflammatory bowel condition of his digestive tract that was causing diarrhea and preventing complete digestion of his food. In inflammatory bowel disease, the body's immune system attacks either proteins from the diet or self antigens or normal bacterial flora in the GI tract. The bowel wall becomes inflitrated with inflammatory cells and the result is destruction of villi and thickening of the bowel wall. This prevents normal uptake and digestion of food and leads often to diarrhea and weight loss. 

Inflammatory bowel disease can be grouped into three catagories: food responsive, antibiotic responsive, and steroid responsive. We are lucky enough, that Woody has fallen into the category of food responsive.  We have been home cooking for him full-time for well over a year now. I have a system where I buy in bulk, take one 4 hour period out of one day of the week, and prepare about 7-10 days worth of food, which I freeze, then take out during the week.  It is simple, now that I have a system.  This will now be a life long commitment, which I am more than happy to do..being that he is responding so well to it (we just had our follow up appointment, and all of his labs came back great!)

My point of this discussion is that you have to be your own advocate.  If I had the knowledge that I learned here on DK…who knows? Maybe this could have all been avoided.  Please, don't ever let your vet give you medicine without a good reason, and KNOW the side effects, and what you can do to avoid them..in the case of Woody, maybe taking a probiotic from the beginning would've helped?

So a BIG THANK YOU to all that have helped along the way..and please, if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask!

[Stella]

I am volunteering at a vet clinic at the moment and truly had to bite my tongue when a couple brought in a seven month old puppy they had just got from an ad on kijiji. They have had the dog a couple of weeks, who knows what kind of conditions he came from, and they were changing his food from Purina to Performatrin. He had developed loose mucousy stools. So I'm thinking, they only just got this dog, shouldn't be changing his food for at lest two weeks after he comes home, he might have giardia or some other intestinal parasite, could be the food change, who knows? The vet prescribes metro and RC Rx food - no stool sample requested, no advice about probiotics etc etc. Soo frustrating!!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Frustrating, sad, and scary. :(

[Jill, Woody & Maxi]

That is a shame.  We can only hope this dog and its owners are somehow led in the proper direction...

[Gretchen Nastrom]

I just read your story about Woody after my return from the vet with Preston.  He is now 1, and began having loose, running stools a couple weeks ago.  This happened a couple months after we had gotten him, and our vet put him on metronidazole along with a probiotic.  Now here we are again several months later back on metronidazole and the probiotic.

My vet did mention Preston could possibly have inflammatory bowel condition, but recommended doing this round of meds and then if it happens again to think about switching his food.  My gut (no pun intended) tells me that Preston has some digestive issues and that I better get in front of this before it becomes a problem. After reading your story about Woody, I am going to start doing some more research and see what we can do to help our guy.  

[Jill, Woody & Maxi]

Did he ever test positive for Giardia?  Its a great thing that you are also giving a probiotic. Which is one thing I unfortunately did not have the knowledge of at that time.  Which food is Preston on, and what types of treats to you give him, bones included? I think it is important that you know from the vet why you are giving metro…this medication can have serious side effects, and I would never give it again without a valid reason, and even then, I would still opt for Panacur.

If you are considering further testing, I would recommend seeing an Internal Medicine specialist..Are you close to a veterinary specialist/or vet university? Nothing against your vet, but their range of practice is limited, and if you are dealing with true GI issues, an IM Dr will be more helpful.

There is a GI bloodwork panel that they will run, which will help give further answers if he has any absorption issues.  Then, the only way to truly diagnose a bowel disease is through an endoscope.  

I wish you guys the best of luck, and if I can help in any way, please ask! Also, please keep us posted on Preston!

[Gretchen Nastrom]

They did run all the tests last night for Giardia and other parasites, which all came back negative.  The one test that tests the good bacteria came back as being low which is why he is on the probiotic.  The vet indicated that the metro was the anti-diarrehal med, but Preston was so out of it last night after we gave it to him that I hesitate to continue it.  I will call the vet this morning and ask for a different option.

We currently feed him Holistic Select Adult & Puppy Health Salmon, Anchovy & Sardine Meal (grain-free) which is a dry food.  We are really careful about treats and give him the Nutro crunchy treats or we give him cut up baby carrots, apples or occasionally cheese.   For bones we occasionally get a bone from our local butcher, which is a beef leg bone (but we only do this occasionally - maybe one bone every couple months just because we know he has a sensitive tummy and we try to keep his food/treats as consistent as possible).

We are in the Minneapolis area, so I am going to check with the University of Minnesota vet school to see if we can get him in to see an internal med specialist as well.

Question for you:  do you ever give Woody any kind of yogurt?  The reason I ask is because I made some homemade Frosty Paws this summer with plain greek yogurt, banana and a little bit of peanut butter, and I think that may have helped - his stools were the best they had been in the year we have had him.  He hasn't had those in a while, and now I notice that our yard is getting burned up again where he is going potty, so I might make another batch.  With those we only gave them to him once a week since...you guessed it...we are worried about his tummy!  (Good thing I love my boy so much because this is a lot of work!!!).

Thanks again for your replay and advice - I really appreciate it!  The more I read about dog food the more overwhelmed I get!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Gretchen, please take a look at the recommended treat brands list. Nutro is not a recommended brand for treats or for food. Your best bet for treats would be plain pure protein treats like Pure Bites. 

Holistic Select is one of our recommended brands, but Preston would probably do better with a grain-free LID formula like Wellness Simple Solutions Salmon & Potato. 

Yogurt is fine and does help the digestion, but I would skip the peanut butter. You might just try adding the plain yogurt to his meals, or giving the frozen yogurt as a treat with just a few blueberries or dried cranberries in it. 

[Jill, Woody & Maxi]

Yes, we do give both of our dogs yogurt on a daily basis (in addition to proviable)..We do use PB, but very sparingly. I give plain, unflavored "super" yogurt, it says on the label pre-and probiotic.

I have found that using a vet school over a privately owned company is a huge monetary savings, plus, you have a "team" working on your dog…at least that is how it is in my area.

Like Karen said, a limited ingredient, grain free food may do the trick for Preston…There are a lot of options, and it can be overwhelming…but you've come to the right place..we are glad to help! 

Good luck!

[Gretchen Nastrom]

I can't thank you guys enough for being so helpful!  I talked to the vet today, and he said that we can discontinue the metro since it is making him so out of it.  He did recommend continuing with the probiotic and said that if I think we need to switch food that we should probably consider it.  I'm thinking that since he has had two tests in the past 6 months come back with low "good" bacteria that we need to change.  So, I bought a small bag of the Wellness Simple Solutions to see if he would like it and gave him just a little bit this afternoon.  He devoured it and then sat and stared at the bag on the counter.  So, I think we will transition this new food to him and see how it goes.  I'm hoping that this goes well, but if not, it looks like the U of MN has a lot of options with internal med specialists, dieticians, etc.

I have to admit, I feel bad that I didn't discover this sooner.  Our vet has been saying that Preston is on the "lean" side, but didn't ever seem alarmed (he's 43 pounds, but both of his parents were about 50 pounds).  I'm hoping if we can get past these digestive issues that he will continue to fill out and be a healthy boy.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Please don't feel bad for what you didn't know in the past. All of us could blame ourselves for what we didn't know, but that doesn't do our dogs or us any good. We just have to move forward and do the best we can with the information we have at the time. 

I wouldn't take more than 4 or 5 days to transition the food. You won't see any improvement until he's fully transitioned, and drawing out the combination of the two foods can often make things worse. Using the probiotics and some yogurt should help.  I'm glad he likes the Wellness, JD has done very well on it. 

[Jill, Woody & Maxi]

Good luck with the switch, and please let us know how it goes! Will be thinking of you guys!

[Gretchen Nastrom]

Well I think Preston is on the mend.  Yesterday he was full of energy and his "old" self again (i.e., he was getting into things, wanting to go in and out of the house all day, playing ball, chasing my son, exploring the yard, etc).  His stools are firming up but still soft, but I have a feeling that with some more time with the probiotics and yogurt that should help.

Did I mention he absolutely LOVES that Wellness food?  This morning he woke up when I was getting ready for work and was ready to eat.  Normally he sleeps in!