Special food recommendations for liver disease.

[Sheree Small]

Hi all. All three of our pups are on Taste of the wild salmon based/grain free food. That includes he 6 month doode, 9 mo lab and 3 yr coton. The lad has been diagnosed with liver disease of an unknown cause, but her liver panels are pretty bleak. She doesn't seem to feel bad. Normal appetite, and activity level. (Most favorite is out jumping the doodle in the pool).
I think our food choices have alway been good. We've been grain free for a long time. The vet of course want to push a prescription diet which Inwon't do. Any thoughts on a better/different diet?
She is on several meds including milk thistle, SamE, atropica, vitamin E and prednisone. Thoughts?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I am really sorry to hear this. 

Was she diagnosed with a portosystemic shunt? What is the particular Rx food the vet wants you to use?  In order to try to find a food that would be appropriate for her, we need to try to match the nutritional analysis. 

I'm thinking that your best bet would be to consult a canine nutritionist and have a homemade diet formulated. That can be expensive, though. 

Serious liver disease (including portosystemic shunt) in a nine mo. old puppy would most likely be genetic. Have you contacted your breeder about this? 

[Sheree Small]

Thanks for the reply. I obviously made a typo. The lab is 9 years old, not 9 months. The liver enzymes are way out of whack, and basically they are calling it cirrhosis which is liver disease, or scarring of the liver from unknown causes. She did have a bacterial infection. We have done a biopsy and and ultrasound. They said her liver looks like bunches of grapes. As I said she had no symptoms and we only found out with a routine lab test. She has been a healthy girl all of her life til this. The foods they are recommending are a Hills liver diet and/or Royal Canin which I think is similar to Hills quality of food. I have always heard to stay away from these foods. Thanks again, Sheree

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

For most of the conditions for which vets recommend Rx foods, (digestive issues, diarrhea, weight loss, allergies, to name a few), there are much better options available. But for serious diseases, especially those that involve organs like the kidneys or liver, you're kind of between a rock and a hard place. No, these foods are not good, healthy foods in terms of ingredients or sourcing. All are owned and made by huge multinational corporations (RC is Mars, Inc; Hill's is Colgate/Palmolive) that purchase their ingredients from China through third party food brokers, and all use the cheapest possible sources and ingredients to keep costs down and profits high. The shareholders are more important than the customers.To add insult to injury, you pay more for these foods than you would for the highest quality products from small privately owned companies. 

But, there are no commercial foods with the right nutritional analysis for dogs with these kinds of health problems. Ideally, you want a diet with a low protein percentage, but high quality protein. There are also considerations regarding the vitamin and mineral balance, and those are outside the scope of expertise for anyone but a veterinary nutritionist. Certainly, nobody here is qualified to make a recommendation. Most commercial foods do not even include the values for every single mineral on their packaging, including the Rx foods. 

So your best bet is truly to consult a veterinary nutritionist, and have them formulate a diet that you can prepare at home. That's what I would do. Many of the larger veterinary schools have clinical nutrition departments that will do this for you. It may sound daunting, but many people here cook for their dogs, and once you get a system and a routine in place, it isn't as hard as it sounds. 

Rayne Clinical Nutrition also offers this service: http://www.raynenutrition.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1823

If this isn't a possibility, go with Royal Canin. The ingredients are usually much better than Hill's. 

I wish I could be of more help. 

[F, Calla & Luca]

I am sorry to hear about your lab, is the medication she is on for her liver?

[Sheree Small]

Hi. The medications we ha e been on keep changing since her biopsy and diagnosis. First we did a month of a very strong antibiotic due to the resistant bacterial infection. Copper levels are OK. She is on Denamarin and Urisol and prednisone . Last month we added Atopica. We started at a high dose of prednisone and are now to 10 mg. after her last unimproved labs we added more milk thistle and Vitamin E. When my current denamarin runs out we are continuing with milk thistle, E and SamE. Thank goodness for pill pockets

[Lori, Winnie, Bob and Indie]

Hi Sheree! Just a FYI regarding the milk thistle....If you are looking for one less pill to give your dog, you might want to consider a liquid extract. I personally take a product from Swanson and occasionally put some on Winnie's food after she has gotten vaccines, antibiotics, been in yards sprayed with herbicides, etc. It's pretty high potency- I figured out that 8 drops is equivalent to about 250mg. I'm not endorsing this particular brand, but it IS good quality and inexpensive. Whoa- I don't know how to make the picture smaller!  :-)

 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Just looked at the RC Hepatic Diet, and the ingredients are truly awful:

Brewers rice, brown rice, corn, chicken fat, soy protein isolate, natural flavors, dried beet pulp, vegetable oil, monocalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, fish oil, DL-methionine, fructooligosaccharides, choline chloride, taurine, salt, L-lysine, trace minerals (zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), L-carnitine, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, niacin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6) thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), menadione sodium bisulfate complete (source of vitamin K), folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement], rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and citric acid.

Analysis:

Crude Protein (min) 14%
Crude Fat (min) 14%
Crude Fiber (max) 3.6%
Moisture (max) 10%

Sodium Menadione Bisulfite is banned from use in Europe due to the many, many health conditions to which it has been linked, including cancer. 

And with a protein content of only 14%, you want that protein to be coming from high-quality, easily digested and utilized sources, i.e. animal proteins, not corn and rice. 

I would not feed this to my dog. 

[Sheree Small]

Thanks Karen. I checked out the link for prepared food. I think the next step is to see a "veterinary dietician" and then look at what I can do at home as well. I have a "pet food guru" in our town and they can compare the scary prescription diets contents and try to offer a good food that is similar. We'll see.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The Hill's Hepatic Diet also contains menadione. :(

It does contain some animal proteins, and the protein percentages are higher. But I'd have to have absolutely no other option on earth to feed this to my dog. 

http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-canine-ld-canine-hepatic-health...

[Hazel & Chester Wayte]

Sorry to hear about this. For all things food I listen to Karen. I attended a Dr Dodds seminar. I know she has had success with her home cooking diet she has it on her website.
In case that is an option

[Tanya and IsaBella]

Justfoodfordogs.Com provides free online recipes and sells supplements for home cooking. I see they also have a hepatic support recipe. I am not affiliated with them but you may want to give them a call they may be able to formulate something for you.

[Sheree Small]

Thanks Tanya, I will definitely check it out!