A question about multigen Goldendoodles

[Three Doodle Life]

Apologies in advance if this runs long. It's my first ever discussion in the 1 1/2 years I've been on DK. LOL!

We are thinking about adding a second doodle to our family, possibly in the beginning of 2016. I've been researching a lot of breeders in the nearby states as well as our state. Our first choice breeder has a top notch reputation within my community. Her litters are always sold months before they are even conceived. She does OFA and CERF medical testing on both parents of each litter as well as clearances for Von Willebrands disease. She provides proof of these results. She only breeds goldendoodles, has a two year health guarantee with monetary reimbursement (without asking for the return of the dog), and guarantees rehoming should something happen. Basically she meets everything on Adina's "What To Look For In A Breeder" checklist. :-)

So, what's my problem? She mainly breeds multigen goldendoodles. Our Beowoof is an F1b. We chose that "version" of goldendoodle because of the curly poodle coat and likelihood of less shedding. He's been fantastic on both of these. While I know you can never guarantee that your pup won't shed, we did try to boost our chances with the F1b.

I don't know anything about multigen goldendoodles. I know this is common practice with labradoodles but I've not seen as much on here in regards to GDs. Does anyone have experience or knowledge of what to expect in regards to temperament and coat? The pairing she has planned for early 2016 is an F1b chocolate female with an F3 cream male. I'm not even sure what "F" you would call the resulting pups. :-)

 

[Adina P]

Since goldendoodles, seem to shed slightly less on average than labradoodles, and because you could probably pick a similar curly coat in a multigen litter, I think you're probably safe coat-wise with a multi-gen litter.  An F1b + an F3 would be called an F3 still because a generation can only advance 1 level past the lowest generation and the lowest is the F1b (which is similar to an F2 for counting purposes).  But that really is irrelevant...you just know he's a multigen and you pick by personality and looks.

[Three Doodle Life]

Thanks, Adina! I'm probably overthinking. I love my Beowoof so much that I worry about messing with "perfection". ;-)

[Kaitee and Orwell]

Wouldn't the resulting puppies actually be F3b? Because the resulting pups would technically be 5/8s poodle and 3/8s golden. 

Math:

F1b = 75% poodle, 25% golden

F3= 50% poodle, 50% golden

.75 x .5 = .375 or 37.5% or 3/8 (golden)

1 - 3/8 = 5/8 (poodle)

So technically, she would be getting a slightly more poodley dog. 

[Adina P]

The F designation, as I understand it, is not about percentage of poodle vs. retriever.  And with an F3, you don't really know how the F3 was arrived at so it may not be 50/50.  And F3 + F4 = F4 because a generation can only advance 1 number past the lowest generation.

[Kaitee and Orwell]

I know. The 'b' signifies a backcross in the line, right? Which affects the percentage.

[Kaitee and Orwell]

For example, I know my guy is a F2b. 

His mom is a F1 and his dad a F1b. 

[Three Doodle Life]

I'm in trouble if math is involved. LOL

[Mike Gruenke]

I saw a litter of 8 pups last year that were a cross from a F1b cream Goldendoodle female and a black Multigeneration male Goldendoodle, (I do not remember what generation, 3 or 4 I think). I went with some friends to look at the litter. The mother of the litter almost looked like a purebred poodle it was so curly and the father looked like a black Golden Retriever with a beard and mustache and more of a big wavy curl to his coat. Both parents were beautiful dogs and super temperament. The pups were 5 weeks old, not ready to go to thier new homes. Of the 8 pups 3 were cream colored and had slight wave to thier young coats of hair, 2 were females. All of those were spoken for already. Of the blacks 3 were very curly, 2 were boys. The other 2 were both males and had very smooth straight hair, but you could already see thier beards forming. Only 1 curly and 1 straight haired male were left to choose from and our friends couldn't make up thier minds, so they left and called back about 3 hours later to ask for the curly one. Niether were available any more.

[Three Doodle Life]

Yes, her litters are always pre-sold and the waiting list is almost a year out. I've seen photos of some of the past litters and they are handsome pups.

[Linda, Charlie Brown and Beau]

This is info I received from a Australian labradoodle breeder several years ago explain the designations.  I would think the gd breeding would be similar.

There are several different ways to produce a Labradoodle:

 

F1 = 50% Labrador and 50% Poodle - This is Lab to poodle cross, this is

first generation, resulting in healthier offspring! Hair type can be smooth

like a Lab, wirey look like a Irish wolfhound or Wavy/curly like a Poodle,

they can shed or not shed, pups in the same litter can vary. This is not

the best cross for people with severe allergies.

 

F1-B = 25% Labrador Retriever and 75% Poodle (F1 Labradoodle and

Poodle cross) - This is Labradoodle bred to Poodle, Wavy Curly shaggy

look doodle very consistent in coat types. F1B is the MOST likely of any

to be non shedding and Allergy friendly then ANY doodles and is the

easiest coat to take care of.

 

F2 is breeding a F1 Labradoodle and F1 Labradoodle cross -

"

",

F3 = puppies from a F2 Labradoodle and F2 Labradoodle cross

Multi-generation = F3 or higher generation Labradoodle and F3 or higher

generation Labradoodle cross - This is what the Australian labradoodles usually are.

 

[April Cliber]

Ask your breeder if she does ic testing.  If at least one parent is ic (Incorrect coat) CLEAR, the pups in the litter will not have what is referred to as an "open face".  An open face is smooth and short, like a retriever.  Below are a couple pictures of a dog that is ic affected. His parents were a F1 and F2b.  Both were curly, but now we know both carried for ic.  BTW, this is not a health concern at all!  IC simply refers to the coat type.  Now that we have this DNA testing at our fingertips more and more breeders are having multigen litters.  It takes some of the "guess work" out of a litter of doodles.  Keep in mind, a curly coat doesn't necessarily mean it will be non-shedding. 

Best wishes with your new pup!  Your breeder sounds great!

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

How terrific is it that you can do DNA for coats now!