dog training aka Katie is mad at me

[Stacy]

Katie is almost a year and I'm still having some bratty behavior issues. Eating everything, stealing everything, beating up on the little dog, biting (not agressively, but still!), eating everything (that one deserves to go on there twice.) So I hired a ridiculously expensive dog trainer to come to the house with an electronic collar and help us. 

The good news is that since he was here on Monday she hasn't eaten anything including the little dog. And she does exactly what I'm asking her to do. I'm kind of amazed in the change in her behavior. There's no more biting me or trying to pull my clothes off when I'm on the phone. And we still have 2 more lessons.

The bad news is that she's completely depressed and pouty. She's not being hurt. I'm using this thing on the lowest setting there is. In fact I've had it on my hand and my neck and I can't feel it at all. But she is completely breaking my heart with her sad little self. I don't know what to do. I can call the trainer, but he warned me that she might be pouty for a while. I just didn't expect this.

Does anyone have any advice? Am I being cruel to dogs and breaking her little spirit forever? Should I keep doing what we're doing and expect the pouting to resolve? Or give up and try something different? I admit that I do like her behavior. I just hate seeing her so sad.

Thanks! Stacy 

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

How often are you using the electronic collar?  What kinds of behaviors are resulting in a "shock"?  Are you also rewarding good behavior?

[Stacy]

Our instructions were for her to wear the collar all the time we're together. So I've been putting it on in the morning when we wake up and then taking it off at bed time. She sleeps with me, but it needs to charge daily, so it has to come off. I've also been on vacation this week so we've been hanging out together a lot. I've been trying to practice with her several times a day, but I don't think I've been using it excessively. 

So, this training is completely backwards of what I thought it would be. She gets shocked when I give her the command. So, when I say the word "come" Then she gets three tries, increasing the intensity of shock if needed/desired and then you "show" her what to do. We are working on Come, Sit, Wait (at doorways), This way (stay around me, but she doesn't have to come all the way), Off (like knock it off, stop doing whatever annoying thing you're doing.) I haven't really gotten to use Off because she stopped doing all annoying things as soon as we put the collar on. Wait still needs some work, but she's very consistent with everything else.

She does get lots of praise and occasionally treats. 

She seems to be doing better this afternoon. Maybe I worried too soon. She's playing with me and her toys and not pouting in her crate. It's just hard when she's unhappy. She's my baby. I just want us to both be on the same page about acceptable behaviors. Eating another laptop cord is not on my list of fun things to do!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I think I may not be the right person to give you advice.  I personally would not put an e-collar on a dog and leave it on all day.  I would also not be shocking her and increasing intensity the way you are.  I would be so worried about losing trust.  I think e-collars potentially have a place in some extreme situations, but I would not use them for things like sit or wait.  I know this is an individual decision, and I'm just sharing my own thoughts.

[Stacy]

Honestly I've always said the same thing. So I won't try to justify it except to say that I did do some research, and I am comfortable putting the collar on myself or I would never put it on her. And I feel like I have to give it a little bit of a chance before I throw $900 down the drain. I also saw a demonstration of the trainers dogs and they were amazing. And not distrustful or shy. They were personable and happy and amazing. I guess that does sound like I'm trying to justify this training, but treats and bitter apple spray were not working with this one. And I was feeling so frustrated that I thought we needed to try something different. Still, she's my bestie and if I think that I'm doing more harm than good with this we will stop and go a different route. I think it's kind of like human children. You try to do the best thing for them and sometimes you get it right and sometimes you get it wrong. But you keep trying!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I agree with Jane.

I'm also hoping I'm reading this wrong: "She gets shocked when I give her the command." 

She gets shocked when you just say "come", before she's had a chance to comply?

If that's true, it's extremely unfair, IMO.

[Stacy]

I was told that it was like tapping her on the shoulder to get her attention. I'm using sit means sit dog training. It's a national company. I've never done any training like this, I've never really done any dog training at all. So... I mean, I don't really have anything to compare it to.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, I've been training my own dogs since 1977, and while I'm far from an expert, even with methods that involve some pretty harsh corrections, I've never heard of "correcting" a dog before they've even had a chance to obey and haven't made a mistake. You typically use the dog's name to get his attention, or a hand gesture, or a verbal signal such as "watch me". Corrections are given after you have demonstrated what you expect the dog to do in response to a command, you are sure the dog knows what he is supposed to do and has shown you that he does, but then doesn't comply. I don't mean to be critical or make you feel bad, but shocking a dog to get his attention sounds cruel to me. And ditto for  correcting a dog before he's made a mistake. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You might be interested in this thoughtful article about the training methods used by "Sit Means Sit": http://zeebyrd.com/dog-training-reviews/real-sit-means-sit-dog-trai...

[Nicky, Riley & Boris]

I really like Doggy Dan and his methods. I can't talk for the shock collars only that it's not something I would personally ever be comfortable with. We met a pup out one day and as it approached Boris it winced and cowered and moved away. It was only when I saw the owner that I realised she had 'shocked' it. It was a very uncomfortable moment.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I also like Doggy Dan's methods because I think they are fair to the dog and effective.  It's all about showing him what you want, rewarding when he does it, and correcting humanely and fairly when he doesn't.  It's also about not setting them up to fail.  If they're "chewers" they really can't be put in situations where they are unsupervised until they can be trusted.

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

Ditto ... Doggy Dan is the Man!

[Stacy]

I hate that I feel like I have to defend something I'm not even 100% sold on. But I watched the video. And I honestly didn't see anything objectionable in it. I did not see a dog that looked scared or in pain or resistant to what was happening. And I read the article. And I don't at all think it was objective. It read like an ad for Doggy Dan. And that's fine, but it's not unbiased. 

I will tell you that I have personally felt every single setting on the collar. There are numbers 1-7 and within that there are 3 buttons - think #, #+1/3, #+2/3. I didn't have an issue with anything up to 4. After that I wouldn't say it hurt exactly, but I didn't like it. It made me jump. I promise you that neither I, nor any trainer I hire will go above that number. I would never do to my dog what I wouldn't like done to myself. 

And I do plan on this collar being a temporary thing. This is a tool, not the end game. And I'm not looking for perfect obedience. I'm looking for a little family harmony. My goal is for Katie not to eat Olivia. Not to eat all of the toilet paper - or the pillows, and to stop mouthing me all the time. If we end up walking nicely on leash and not lunging for the door when the pizza man comes I'll consider that a bonus.