probiotics, Goats Milk and omega/glucomsamine supplements

[Kimberly and Mikey]

We saw a nutritionist today and he recommended that Mikey stay on either Goat's milk or a Probiotic daily? I got a small carton of the Goat's milk but after that is gone I don't know whether to move over to a probiotic. Is this usual for a dog to take them daily? Also, what is a good omega/glucosamine supplement. I heard they can always use extra omegas. 

Thanks

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm not sure what this nutritionist's credentials are, but the only degree program in canine nutritionist is a veterinary specialty, i.e. someone who is a veterinarian with a DVM degree who then goes on to specialize in nutrition. I'm pretty sure this wasn't a vet who gave you this advice.

What is the purpose of giving goat's milk? Surely this nutritionist had a reason for recommending it. 

To my knowledge, it wouldn't replace probiotics or substitute for them. I know what probiotics are used for, it's to replenish the good gut bacteria necessary for proper digestion and stool formation. Goat's milk doesn't do that, it contains no live cultures at all. You can substitute yogurt for probiotics, but not goat's milk, or any other kind of milk.

Lots of dogs with digestive issues get yogurt or probiotics daily, including mine. It's usually not necessary to give on a permanent basis, unless there is a chronic condition. For most digestive issues a month or two is enough.

As for the supplements, there seems to be a little confusion there too. There are glucosamine/chondroitin supplements, which are used for joint issues and are of have questionable benefit, but they're not typically combined with Omega fatty acids. I'm not sure why Mikey would need to be on a glucosamine supplement, but it would have nothing to do with either digestion, nutrition, or Omega fatty acids.

As for Omegas, there are all kinds. The essential Omega fatty acids are Omega 3 and Omega 6; "essential" means the body doesn;t make them, and they need to be obtained from the diet. To further complicate matters, there are different kinds of Omega 3 fatty acids and different kinds of Omega 6 fatty acids. Some are more beneficial than others. Most dogs (and people) get more than enough Omega 6 and it isn't necessary to supplement. In fact, too much Omega 6 can actually contribute to inflammation, especially if there isn't enough of the right kinds of Omega 3 fatty acids in the diet. The "right" kind of Omega 3 fatty acids for dogs are DHA and EPA, both of which are only found in fish. The best dog foods contain an Omega 6:3 ratio of 4:1 or less. Fish based foods generally have better ratios. (The food I recommended to you, Wellness Simple Solutions Salmon, has an Omega 6:3 ratio of 1.75 to 1, which is about as good as it gets in any dog food, one of the reasons I recommend it.)

So depending on a dog's diet, and whether he has any kind of health conditions, Omega 3 fish oil supplements are usually a good idea. Some dogs do get diarrhea from too much fish oil, so be careful. I prefer the human fish oil softgels, they're usually better quality and less expensive than the ones made for dogs. NatureMade minis is a good choice.

[Kimberly and Mikey]

He has been on metronidizole for a week and has 3 more days. I went in there looking for the wellness and to take the acana back but they didn't carry it. Only specialty brand foods. That was when he recommended the goats milk since he is having diarreah, I'm sure from the antibiotics. I asked about wellness and they said they don't carry it and wanted me to get the Go! line food. I went to petco and they didn't have that type of wellness either. Very weird. I can try Petsmart tomorrow. They recommended the omegas because he is still a puppy and if I am switching him to an adult food it may not be enough for him. They recommended The missing link skin and coat. They said since we got Mikey from a pet store and more than likely he was a puppy mill dog so that may be why we a re constantly having stomach issues. Of course getting him from the pet store was my husbands doing but we have him now. They said he may need to be on probiotics everyday and that its better to be on probiotics than antibiotics. *confused* 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, if I'm understanding this correctly, the "nutritionist" is a clerk in a pet supply store?

[Kimberly and Mikey]

No, he is supposed to be the best over here. But of course I really don't know much. It was all too much to take in. That's why I was wondering if this sounded normal. They also suggested I feed him Tripe once a week

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I just spent 30 minutes typing out a long answer and it disappeared. 

I don;t have time right now to redo it, that will have to wait til later. For now i will say that every thing these people told you is wrong. ignore all of it, it's bad advice that makes no sense, and it's going to make Mikey sicker. 

Right now this minute, order a bottle of Proviable DC probiotics online. Stop the goat's milk immediately. Give him 2-3 TBSP of plain unflavored fat free yogurt 2-3 times a day until the Proviable gets there. Do not introduce any new foods or supplements right now. More later. 

[Emery & Watson]

Why is Mikey on antibiotics?  Did the vet test for something that showed that he needed it?  I only ask because some doctors (including human ones) over prescribe on antibiotics, maybe that is why they made their statement

Antibiotics help the body kill ALL bacteria, however everybody has both good and bad bacteria

Probiotics help re-establish the good bacterias in the digestive system

ANTI - meaning to without, and PRO - meaning to add 

If he's on antibiotics you should wait at least a couple hours before giving him probiotics so you don't kill all the good bacteria you're trying to add back

Regarding Wellness, I've also run around to multiple shops before, trying to find it.  The easiest thing to do, is to call them before heading out, to make sure they carry it and that its in stock.  Otherwise you can be like me and spend hours driving around. :)  I did finally find the specific Wellness formula I was looking for at Petsmart.

Good luck with his tummy issues!  We've also had some trouble with Watson but I think we're finally on something that works for him! (He is on Wellness LID + Proviable DC)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

This is exactly right. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Kimberly, we haven't talked in awhile. How's Mikey doing? 

[Kimberly and Mikey]

He's so much better.After I was unable to ind wellness anywhere, we got the zignature. He said no way. He starved himself for 2 days. He refused it. I said I'm done. He is getting the probiotics everyday. I got a big bag of the acana singles lamb and apple and he has been eating that everyday. loose stool first day but everything has been fine. He was on the duck singles before and loved it so I said why not. He is doing so much better. the only complaint is his coat doesn't look near as good. I don't know how to figure omega ratios but his coat looked even better on TOTW. I am going to finish this big bag and maybe rotate to the pork singles or grasslands because he loves duck. I still at some point need to figure a way to see if he is allergic to chicken and beef.

One step at a time

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm glad he's doing better. 

Once the digestive issues are completely resolved, you can give him some fish oil supplements. That will help a lot with his coat. But don't do it yet. 

The way to know if he has a sensitivity or intolerance (allergies are a different issue, with different symptoms)  to chicken or beef is that once he's doing well and has no digestive issues for a period of 8-12 weeks, during which he gets absolutely no chicken or beef in any form whatsoever,  you reintroduce either chicken or beef. (One at a time!) You don't have to switch foods, you can simply give him chicken or beef treats. If symptoms come back, you pretty much have your answer.  

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Oh and I wouldn't go with the Grasslands formula, it's multi-protein. You really need to stay with the LID formulas. It's fine to rotate the Singles formulas, all three of them, and that way he gets some duck, lol.

[Kimberly and Mikey]

well I figured the grasslands would be ok since its only lamb, duck and fish and he is good on all of those. He did good on pacifica so I know I can rotate that. He has never tried turkey, bison, or venison. And we aren't sure about chicken, beef or pork. One of them he had a bad reaction too. So I am kind of scared to switch him to the pork and squash acana but I guess that will tell me quickly if it was that protien. So after he is completely fine what treats do you recommend giving to test out the beef and chicken allergy. I haven't given him treats since he was a puppy. I have the pumpkin fruitable treats now that he only gets on occasion. I don't want to rotate back to pacifica yet because I honestly think he is bored of fish.