Hyrolized Foods

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

RX RX RX Foods ... If all the food trials require a hydrolized food, why don't some of the better companies make these choices?

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I've had Murph on the Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Soy since his IBD diagnosis, and this seems to be working for lots of IBD dogs.  They are now owned by Mars which is not a good thing, but I checked complaints and recalls before deciding on RC and there were no recalls that I could find since 2007.  I would LOVE to have him on a different diet, but he seems to be in remission now and I would not do anything to jeopardize that.  I never thought I'd say this....but I'm grateful that there is this option.  I also give him the Hills hydrolyzed treats because they're the only ones I could find.  Because of his reactiveness I need to have a treat to refocus him...and this is the only one available.  I do wish there were more options...hopefully at some point there will be.

[Ann Kendig]

I don't really know much about Hydrolyzed foods (but it looks like I'll have to learn) but why did they choose soy for Murphy?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Ann, most hydrolyzed foods are made with soy, mainly because it's cheap. There isn't really a choice. It doesn't matter anyway, because "hydrolyzed" means that the protein molecules are broken down so small that the body can't recognize them and therefore can't react to them. 

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

It was more that they wanted him on the Royal Canin hydrolyzed, and that was soy.  Both the IMS and my Vet felt that if you have to go down this road, RC was the best choice.  Hills also makes a prescription hydrolyzed food that uses chicken as the protein....but as Karen says it really doesn't matter because the body doesn't recognize it anyway. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

All food trials don't require a hydrolyzed food, just a limited ingredient diet with a novel protein and often, a novel carb. A lot of the better companies are now making such diets. 

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

That's a great point, Karen.  For me finding the novel carb was the main problem....Murph had been on so many different foods.  There are lots of good quality novel proteins out there now. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Yes, a lot depends on what kind of diet the dog has eaten in the past. The more varied the diet, the harder it's going to be to find something to use for a trial. That's why we always recommend that you even if you feed a rotation diet, you don;t expose the dog to every single ingredient out there; keep a couple in reserve, just in case.

Also, food trials are typically done to try to determine if a dog has food allergies; finding a diet for a dog who is suspected of having food allergies is very different from trying to find a diet for a dog like Murphy who has been reliably diagnosed with Inflammatory Bowel Disease. A food allergy is much less serious, for one thing. For another, it takes a long period of daily exposure for a dog to develop an allergy to a particular ingredient. In a dog with an active inflammation in the gut, an immune response can develop very quickly. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Sheri, I'm assuming that your food trials with rabbit and/or kangaroo did not alleviate Lucy's symptoms, and the vet is now recommending a hydrolyzed protein diet.

Isn't it possible that she just doesn't have food allergies, and that all of her symptoms are related to the Atopy? 

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

Anything is possible, but this Vet just really thinks that the food allergy issue is our issue at the moment, in addition to the environmental factor.  This is the third appointment where she has said she thinks there is a food issue as well.  This time she came into the room along with another Vet that she used to work with that now works for Hills, carrying a free bag of the Hills z/d diet.  We spent an hour talking about this.  My head is about to explode on this issue.  When we did the hydrolized diet before (Royal Canin) Lucy did very well.  Within the first couple weeks there was no itching etc and we started the food trial.  We have been through a few limited ingredient foods since that time, venison, chicken, turkey, rabbit and now the kangaroo.  Additionally she has been on the Atopica at various strengths, mostly 100 one day, 50 the next, and even sometimes 100 every day, along with her injections at various intervals.  Since February it has been every 10 days.  We had a small time frame in April/May ish time frame where she was doing good.  Where we are right now is I'm waiting on a call back about the formula on the shots.  They are going to decide if there is something they can tweak.  We dropped the Atopica and started her on Apoquel.  That was on Thursday evening.  She is doing very good on the Apoquel.  Very minimal scratching and licking.  The worst times seem to be after she eats but even that is better than it has been.  She does it briefly and will stop if we tell her too.  I've told them I do not want to start the Hills at this time ... however, I'm faced with another issue that is food related and that is her anal glands.  She scoots A LOT.  They expressed them on Thursday (or I guess she started it and they finished it).  We seem to have to have them done every time we are at the Vet and could probably have them done more.  The Vet feels the hydrolyzed food, which if she did well on she would most likely remain on forever, would solve the anal gland issue, would solve the allergy itching issue and also would help her drop some pounds that we just don't seem to be able to get off of her.  So, right now the biggest issue is the Anal Gland issue.  With the band-aid for the itching in place I want to find a food that might help her anal glands express themselves on a more regular basis.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

If you must go with a hydrolyzed diet, Royal Canin is a better product than Hill's, by far.

Is this the allergy specialist who's recommending the hydrolyzed food and the immunosuppressant drugs, or the regular vet? 

Both Atopica and Apoquel are very powerful immunosuppressants. Since Atopy is an immune-mediated disease, if the itching is from the Atopy, they ought to work very well for that. The fact that she's still itchy even on those drugs might indicate a food allergy.

But from what I understand, the immunosuppressant drugs interfere with the immunotherapy shots. I haven't heard of them being used long term in dogs who are on immunotherapy. 

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

This is the Dermatologist that is recommending the hydrolyzed food and the immunosuppressant drugs.  The original plan was that she went on the injections and stayed on the Atopica until the injections started being effective.  However, we just can't seem to get them to be effective so she could come off the Atopica.  Like I mentioned we started the Apoquel last week and it seems to be working better than the Atopica ever did.  The goal would be for the injections to take over and then come off the Apoquel. However, she has been on the injections for coming up on two years now.  If there is still a food component, that they could be why it doesn't seem to be working as well as we would like.  But I still have the Anal Gland issue.  I had told her if I did the food again that I would want to do the RC instead of the Hill's because it worked before and she was good with that.  She is also well aware that I'm not buying from them either so it isn't a profit thing for them.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

That makes sense to me.