Olive, poop, and my memories

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

Ollie started with soft formed poo this past Sunday. I added pumpkin and Proviable DC to her Annamaet Salcha kibble daily. It was ok - just soft. Then yesterday I saw a mucous one at 11 and then applesauce consistency at 3:30, so straight to the vet - who convinced me into buying flagyl and w/d food.

I was panicked, what can I say? It is almost exactly a year ago now that sweet young Ripley passed away, and I'm remembering, which is causing me to overreact to poor Ollie's ailments. So when the vet said this was the fastest way to get her better, and offered her the pill with some w/d on a stick and she took it, I let it go. I fed her w/d for dinner. Shortly after she had a soft but shaped poo. I decided not to give her the second 1/2 pill he had recommended. She had no fever and lungs were clear. She is acting normally. Good appetite.

Have you ever tried to catch a dog's poop on a paper plate? DH said Ollie gave him a look like he was a complete pervert! But this morning brought better news with a beautiful poop presented to me on the paper plate by DH! (Yes, we were just using the plates under Ollie to prevent possible yard contamination.) What a sight for sore eyes. :). And then a call with results of negative fecal for giardia! Yay. Feeling much better. Decided to feed her plain boiled chicken and sweet potato mash for both breakfast and lunch.

But now it's 3pm she hasn't pooped since 8am.
And since and since I've (sort-of) calmed, thought I'd share this roller coaster with you. :)

I'm finding it difficult to merge what I've learned here along with trusting (or not trusting) my vet. Having a good plan is key for me so any help, as always, is greatly appreciated! Thanks for listening!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Fingers and paws crossed here, too. :) 

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

So yay, the pill Sun eve didn't cause issue and she was getting back to pretty nice and mostly solid for a while here. We started this past Monday progressively adding kibble, and here on Friday I've been doing 1/3c kibble, 2/3 chicken/sweet potato. But now output mush is progressively back... Did I add too much kibble? Should I have tried the HK Turkey Embark instead of her regular kibble (the Annamaet Salcha)? I was afraid to try something new when originally she was doing great on the Annamaet. Should I go back to solely chicken and sweet potato again? How long can they nutritionally last on this bland diet? Or how long can I last? ;)
Thanks! Oh, and maybe I should take in another sample? Oy.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Cindy, I'm confused. I was just looking at the Annamaet website, and the onyl product they show called "Salcha" is treats, not kibble. I see it listed with online retailers as a food, but I can't find any nutritional info. Is this the food she was on when she came home? 

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

It is definitely kibble! Let me find it...
This should list the info. Yes she has been on only this. She had great poops until mid Aug! ;)
https://www.chewy.com/annamaet-grain-free-salcha-poulet/dp/41931

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

Could the Annamaet be the cause? She turned to liquid last night and made at 11 and 1am. . :( this morning is more pudding like. No blood no mucus.

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

Another thought is that I've been giving her daily proviable DC - maybe that is unnecessary/too much? Her appetite is still great and we fed her only chicken and sweet potato for breakfast.

[Nancy & Echo]

Proviable DC is 'just' bacteria.  You are trying to repopulate the pup's gut flora with more beneficial bacteria, because metronidazole wipes out much of the dog's gut bacteria. 

The issue of microbiota is hard to study, because many bacteria do not survive being cultured.  But bacteria are essential to normal gut formation; animals (?mice) that are raised in a sterile environment (including have no gut bacteria) do not form normal guts.

Some people eat lots of yogurt daily.  Since Proviable contains 'healthy' bacteria,and a large percentage of feces are bacteria, I wouldn't worry about 'getting too much' (as long as you don't give more than your 1 capsule per day - I think that's the recommended dose - and the dog isn't immunosupressed, such as having cancer treatments.)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The minimum effective number of live cultures in any probiotic is 5 billion. 

That's the amount in Proviable, although I'm not sure if that's per dose or per capsule. 

To give you an idea of how difficult it is to get "too much" when it comes to probiotics, the one that Jack takes is a human probiotic called VSL#3, and it contains 112.5 billion CFUs per capsule. He gets 2 capsules, or 225 billion CFUs per day. 

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

Nancy, thank you, but Olive isn't on metro - so I'm wondering if I could be 'overpopulating' her unnecessarily? Maybe I should just stop obsessing until this morning's culture returns, but the WHY is making me anxious...best,
Karen- ok, so it's not the proviable - thx. Hoping they get results back to me today! Otherwise Mon. Ugh. Should most vets be able to turn this around more quickly?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I've found that Flagyl (metronidazole) can do a number on puppies' digestive systems. It's almost guaranteed that no matter why they are taking it, they will have loose stools/diarrhea when you discontinue it. I always recommend using probiotics for several weeks afterwards. 

Do you know what type of fecal test your vet is running? That can make a difference too. Do you know if they are using a SNAP test or a flotation test? 

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

flotation test. That's better, right? Btw she never had metro/flagyl other than one pill.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

My vet prefers the flotation test. The snap test will show antibodies, which can result in a positive test even if the dog doesn't have giardia but was previously exposed.