Olive, poop, and my memories

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

Ollie started with soft formed poo this past Sunday. I added pumpkin and Proviable DC to her Annamaet Salcha kibble daily. It was ok - just soft. Then yesterday I saw a mucous one at 11 and then applesauce consistency at 3:30, so straight to the vet - who convinced me into buying flagyl and w/d food.

I was panicked, what can I say? It is almost exactly a year ago now that sweet young Ripley passed away, and I'm remembering, which is causing me to overreact to poor Ollie's ailments. So when the vet said this was the fastest way to get her better, and offered her the pill with some w/d on a stick and she took it, I let it go. I fed her w/d for dinner. Shortly after she had a soft but shaped poo. I decided not to give her the second 1/2 pill he had recommended. She had no fever and lungs were clear. She is acting normally. Good appetite.

Have you ever tried to catch a dog's poop on a paper plate? DH said Ollie gave him a look like he was a complete pervert! But this morning brought better news with a beautiful poop presented to me on the paper plate by DH! (Yes, we were just using the plates under Ollie to prevent possible yard contamination.) What a sight for sore eyes. :). And then a call with results of negative fecal for giardia! Yay. Feeling much better. Decided to feed her plain boiled chicken and sweet potato mash for both breakfast and lunch.

But now it's 3pm she hasn't pooped since 8am.
And since and since I've (sort-of) calmed, thought I'd share this roller coaster with you. :)

I'm finding it difficult to merge what I've learned here along with trusting (or not trusting) my vet. Having a good plan is key for me so any help, as always, is greatly appreciated! Thanks for listening!

[Nancy & Echo]

One dose of antibiotic can really affect the microbiota.  For example, this paper showed single dose clindamycin (an antibiotic different from metronidazole, but also good against anaerobic bacteria) really changed the microbiota. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3255689/

In this study in humans, a single dose of (metronidazole + doxycycline) versus doxycycline alone before elective colorectal surgery found significantly lower amounts of anaerobes in the (metronidazole + doxycycline) group. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1492867/

In this article, after a 14 day course of metronidazole in dogs,the microbiota were profoundly changed, and didn't approach baseline until 42 days. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4168260/

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Thank you for doing this research, Nancy. It supports what I have seen in numerous dogs and puppies after they've been put on metronidazole. And there are way too many pups who've been given repeated courses for giardia, leading to life-long digestive issues. Veterinary medicine needs to catch up to human medicine in understanding the importance of beneficial bacteria in digestive health, and the vets need to stop handing out metronidazole for every case of diarrhea. . 

[Amy and Annabelle]

Our 4 legged babies worry us as much as our 2 legged. I did snicker at the look Ollie gave your dh. After what you just went through, it is understandable that you would be on the lookout for even the slightest change in Ollie. Glad that things are looking good.

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

Amy, Thanks for the validation. :) And hey, we have to laugh where we can. Nothing turned around my mood faster than that plate of nearly perfect poop! Ha! I have to detach a little, perhaps? My son suggests I simply must "care less." Ha. But yes, it's got to be tied to this time of year and what we all went through as well.

[Stella]

I remember trying to catch one of my doodles pee in a soup ladle when he had a UTI, he definitely gave me "the look"!!!

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

Love that image, Stella, ha! I can see the cartoon bubble over his head right now! "!$&??!#?"

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

If Olive doesn't have any parasites, it's hard to say what's going on. If it was the food causing the loose stool originally, it would have been that way since she came home. And if it's the Flagyl (lack of good bacteria)  causing the current loose stool, what caused the initial bout?  Is it possible that she ingested something she shouldn't have?  

The homemade bland diet doesn't contain all of the vitamins and minerals that she needs in the long term.  It's fine for a couple of weeks. 

Since her stool improves so much with the bland diet, maybe dry kibble is not the way to go right now. Rather than switching to one of the HK formulas with protein added, like Embark, maybe you could buy their base mix and just add your own chicken. You might try that for the interim. 

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

Exactly! And she never took the flagyl - other than that one pill the vet gave her. How often do cultures come back false-neg?
Her stool improved on the bland ch/sp, but not 100%. We fed her bland this morning only. Should we resume feeding only bland again until she (hopefully) improves, or ? I'm happy to buy whatever will make her better. :(

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Giardia can be very tough to diagnose, as the cysts are not present in every sample. It's not uncommon to have a negative giardia test and still have giardia. 

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

Would you ask your vet for Panacur today rather than wait until Monday for a result?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I think it wouldn't hurt. Panacur is a very benign medication. So benign that when I had a foster with giardia, we put Jack on Panacur for three days just as precaution, even with all of his health issues and even though he tested negative. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You might also ask about Tylan, which is so benign that it's an ingredient in some of those tear-stain products like Angel eyes. If this is just colitis or a bacterial issue, the Tylan will help with that, and it has no side effects. It wasn't even "prescription only" until about a year ago.