Help with introducing 2nd doodle

[Stacy]

That title is a bit misleading, because I’ve already introduced the second doodle – last Thursday. But I feel like we are still very much in the introductory period and I want to set us up for future success, and I’m feeling a little nervous and uncertain about things. I’m going to try not to write a novel, but I’ll be honest. I’m probably going to write a novel! I want to give all the relevant information so I can hopefully get some good advice.

 

So the cast is: Katie – she’s 2. I’ve had her since she was 8 weeks old and she’s pretty much the perfect dog. I mean, she jumps on people when they come over and she barks too much and she steals socks out of the hamper… but she loves other dogs. She loves people. She has never had anyone, man or beast be unkind to her.  She’s just a really really nice dog. And she’s a happy dog. I’ve had countless people comment on it at the dog park. She’s just joyful.

 

Ava – 6 years old. She’s Katie’s bio mom. She’s a retired breeder, not spayed (yet – this is happening very soon) and for all intents and purposes she’s a rescue. She’s doing amazingly well, but I don’t think she’s ever spent any time in a home. I had to show her what the bed and couch were for. And I think she’s been around a lot of other dogs, but I’m not sure what if any interaction she actually had with them. She hadn’t been “off the property” in 4 years. She bonded to me immediately. She’s sweet and gentle and just wants to sit with her head on my knee. And once I showed her what the bed and couch were she really liked them! She also is starting to play with toys a little and enjoys a good antler to chew on. I love her very much.

 

My concern is that Ava is sometimes growling and snapping at Katie. It seems to me that it’s over me. Kind of a possessive thing. It’s pretty short lived, and no injuries, but Katie’s tail goes down and she seems afraid.  My first instinct, besides to tell Ava no when she starts growling, is to pick Katie up and cuddle her and reassure her that she’s fine and she’s the baby and I won’t let anything happen to her. And I’m afraid that’s the wrong thing and I’m reinforcing her fear. But I don’t want her to be afraid to sit on the couch or be on the bed or basically lose her place because there is a new dog in the house.

 

I’m not sure what action I need to take to make sure that everyone gets along. It’s okay if they aren’t super best friends forever, though I would love it if they were. But I want them to coexist happily. And I’m sure that there is some training or behavior modification that will facilitate that. I’m just not sure what it is.

 

If you’ve made it this far in my novel, thank you!

Stacy

[Amy and Annabelle]

I know there is an adjustment period for both. There is probably a pecking order and Ava may be trying to make sure she is second to you in that order. If Katie lets her, I don't think there is much you can do about it. They have to figure it out themselves.

[Stacy]

Just to clarify, I'm picking up the dog that is getting growled at, not the dog doing the growling. And I agree, a trainer is always a very good option. But Ava has only been here 5 days, so I'm still at the point where I'm just trying to get everyone settled in before I introduce another *thing*

[33bn7f8evnuyd]

This happened to me twice and is especially true if both dogs are the same sex.  We originally had an 8-year-old girl.  I introduced a pug puppy and she hated her.  She would snap and growl but the pug continued to be friendly and pursued to be her friend.  It finally happened after a few long months.  The reasons are  1. difference in age and energy level and 2. same-sex jealousy.  We brought in a 1-year-old male pomeranian...no problems.  Now that we have Lucky, we see the same thing again.  The 5 lb pomeranian hates him.  He's five and our doodle is 6 months old.  It took a while for my first dog to accept her.  Right now our doodle is much bigger than my two dogs and they find it intimidating.  Their relationship is growing and getting better every day but I"m not sure they would ever be BFFs.  I usually let Lucky play with dogs his own age and size.  I would let them work out their differences on their own unless it gets too aggressive. 

[33bn7f8evnuyd]

Very cute photo btw :)

[Stacy]

Thanks, I think they are pretty great! Katie had a grooming appointment today - now you could see her eyes. But the contrast is so hard in photos. She's gorgeous in real life. I can't take a good picture of her for anything!

[Lynda Kamrath]

Taking photos of black dogs is a challenge.  You have to have a camera that shoots at high resolution.  My digital camera shoots at 20 MB and that seems to work well.  Keep trying and you will find something that works for you.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Ava is resource guarding, and you are the resource. At this point, you're her life raft, which is why she bonded to you so quickly and strongly. You're the most valuable resource she has, and she doesn;t want to share you, lol. It's emotionally hard to correct this under these circumstances, because of course you feel so sorry for Ava.

One thing we advise all our adoptive families who have a current dog in the home when they bring in an adopted adult is to be sure not to put the newcomer above the established dog. There's a normal tendency to do that, much like we would do if our child had a friend over for a sleepover. We instruct our child to let the friend go first, be offered a snack first, perhaps allowed to choose the games, TV shows, etc. because that's polite. With dogs, it's a different story. When you bring in a new dog, especially an adult, your established dog should not lose the pack status which he's already earned. The newcomer has to earn status too. That means Katie gets fed first, Katie gets a treat first, Katie gets affection first, etc. It's not too soon to require that both dogs sit or obey some other requirement before getting anything. It's really a modified version of the "Nothing in Life is Free" training philosophy, and it works wonders in just the kind of situation you're describing. I would also continue the verbal correction to Ava when she growls at Katie for approaching you, but I wouldn't pick her up. The better thing to do in that case is to make Ava get down, which would be telling her that you own all the resources and they are not hers to guard. ( I know that would be hard for you at this point, lol.)

It's true that they will usually work it out between themselves in time, and Ava may well rise above Katie in status,  but that needs to be a mutual decision on both dogs' parts and not just Ava's. Plus, you really don't want to allow any dog to believe that she is in charge of resources, especially not when you are the resource, lol.

Hope that helps. 

 

 

[Stacy]

That's exactly what I half knew, and what I needed to hear. It is hard to correct her. I want to make up for her whole life. And she is so so sweet. And all she wants is me, and it's hard not to get sucked into that. But I am also very aware that Katie is first dog and I also love her so much (even if she doesn't need me as much.) 

And you're right about the resources. The other things she seems to love as much as me are the bed and the couch. And she would prefer it if Katie would not be on the bed and couch. So I guess she is going to have to start getting down if she can't play nice. I've already started making them sit for treats, but I didn't pay much attention to who got their treat first. I will have to be more aware. I'm sure the dogs are paying attention! 

It's not terrible by any stretch of the imagination. It just distresses me because I want my little family to all get along!! 

Thanks Karen!

[Amy and Annabelle]

Maybe she could benefit from some formal training since it kind of seems she probably never got any. Or even a private trainer tailored to the issues you are having. I know when I get another one, I am having the trainer come to the house and go from there as to what the next step would be. There were some rescues in Annabelles training classes and a lot of times it wasn't pretty, so I myself would start off privately. The dogs were either so scared and did nothing but try to hide or aggressive and everyone else was scared. You do have some cute kids.

[Stacy]

Katie had a private trainer, and he was wonderful. But I did all the training! And I hope I learned enough from him that I can pass that on to Ava. I wouldn't hesitate to have him come back, but so far Ava seems so easy compared to puppy Katie. I think if we put our minds to it we can learn all the things. So far she shows no signs of wanting to eat all of the things. And she hasn't had a single potty accident. She walks nicely on leash and she sits for treats. The rest of it is kind of gravy. She does all the good stuff!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I agree with this.  This is Katie's home, and you are her leader.  Now there's a new "interloper" and she's not really sure where she stands.  I would suggest that you try your best not to feel sorry for Ava....her past is over and now she has moved on and won the "dog lottery".  Also, Katie has no idea of Ava's past and what she's missed out on...to her she's just another dog who is now "rocking her otherwise perfect world".  I would work hard at treating them as equals, although there will be times when one gets a little more of your attention and I think that's fine.  I also agree that the same rules should apply to both and that you are the one giving the direction.  I think for now it's best if YOU initiate all affection.  Try calling them over (one at a time), petting them.  Then call the other over and go through the same thing.  I still do this with my two because otherwise each one is trying to be closest to me...they push each other to see who can touch me.  The minute that starts I put one of them in a sit or down, pet the other, and then reverse the "loving".  This is just my opinion, but it seems that you have already bonded pretty closely with Ava....as she has with you.  I did the same thing with my rescue guy, so I really know how that happens.  Now it's gotten to the point where I can't even tell who is higher in status....it kind of changes depending on the situation.  They both know that I'm "in charge" and if I see either of them being a "bully" I'll put a stop to it, but they do seem to have figured it all out.  I'm sure this will all be fine, and I don't want to sound like I think I'm an expert...but I have been through bringing a new puppy into the house so I'm just sharing my thoughts.  Clearly you are a really loving and devoted "Doodle Mom"...so go with what just feels right. 

[Stacy]

This is such a great post! It really hits home for me. I need to have the same expectations of Ava that I would have of any dog that came into the house. To treat her like a normal dog and not a victim of her past. I admit it, I want them to have that mother/daughter bond. And they may eventually love each other, but I'm not sure there will ever be that genetic link that I imagine for them. I am their mom. They can just be sisters if they want. 

Anyway, I want to thank you for taking the time to write. It's so helpful to hear other people's experiences. I think when I relax and just let everyone settle in that they will be fine.