Back yard breeders

[LucyR]

On several forums now, posters have offered/solicited breeding mates for their dogs. These individuals are clearly backyard breeders. The responses have been very polite and informative. However in view of the increasing frequency of such posts, I am thinking that we are not getting our message out there about the dangers of BYBs. These are the kinds of activities that various state legislators are trying to shut down. Rightly so. Many of these dogs will wind up abandoned, in shelters, or in the wrong kinds of homes. Dogs that have been obtained as a "gift from a relative" are not in "screened" homes. How do we know the conditions under which such dogs are kept? I am horrified at these posts and am puzzled as to why they are appearing so frequently? The popularity of doodles is growing by leaps and bounds and this is one of the very sad side effects. We have heard about this, but are now beginning to see it among our doodle owner groups. Creative/helpful suggestions/comments needed for action!

[fergie11]

I think a new term should come up for the back yard breeder!

[Adina P]

I don't know who coined the term, I agree it's not very helpful, but it is a COMMON term. It does NOT mean someone who breeds out of their backyard, literally. A lot of good breeders breed in their home and spend time with the puppies/dogs in their yard...that's NOT what it means.

[Adina P]

Here is a nice link that describes some key differences (though not all apply to doodles):

http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.html/

[Adina P]

I agree, but keep in mind I think sometimes a slip can occur even for conscientious breeders. Certainly a breeder should do his/her best to prevent such accidents.

[Adina P]

Since BYB doesn't sound bad (back yards aren't bad, breeding isn't 'bad' -- it's not a term that stands out to some)--maybe we need to come up with a really great and useful definition.

Here is the wikipedia definition (as part of "selective breeding" definition):

The term backyard breeder is a general term, sometimes considered derogatory, used in USA to describe people who breed animals without selection for important genetic traits.[citation needed] Usually describes those who allow animals, particularly dogs or horses, to procreate regardless of physical or genetic health as opposed to breeders who intentionally screen and select their brood for important characteristics.

some other options for a definition:
"a casual breeder who does not take critical precautions of either a hobby or professional breeder (such as health testing) due to lack of education on proper breeding practices."

Or

"A person whose primary interest for breeding is short-term or long-term profit with disregard for proper breeding practices either knowingly or unknowingly."

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

"...who does not take critical precautions of either a hobby or professional breeder"

Hobby breeder is term for someone who breeds on a very limited basis & small scale from their homes, and is probably the kind of breeder fergie has in mind. You will notice in the statement above that the differences between a hobby breeder and a professional breeder in this example relate to size of the operation and main source of income...the "professional" is a breeder by profession, not just as a sideline, and in the case of purebreds, probably also shows dogs in conformation. However all health screening, care of dogs, contracts, and selection of homes policies would be basically the same. BYB is used derogatorily for a 'puppy mill' type of operation on a much smaller scale..."with disregard for proper breeding practices either knowingly or unknowingly". Maybe it will help to think of it that way.

[LucyR]

Yes, I think that is a very good distinction to make. There can be "hobby" breeders and professional breeders who both conform to high ethical standards and health testing. The "hobby" breeder may have their operation in their back yard but are by no means in the BYB category! Good that you reminded us of the "hobby" breeder category! Thanks!

[Holly Paterniti]

Ok, I have to say, I purchased Bear from a man who has breed before, but I will tell you he would under these definitions be called a BYB. Additionally, my 2 poodles who have just passed last year were purchased by a so called "BYB" too. I understand everyone's concern and I really dislike "puppy mills". But I am going to put myself out there and say this, which I know I will get some backlash for this........but here I go..........

If it were not for Judy (whom I still have VERY close contact with) I would have not been able to afford both Rolly and Tyler. Additionally, our family had 13 years with Tyler and 15 years with Rolly. All of these years with GREAT health.

As for Bear's "BYB"..........if I did not find him in the local paper, I do not think we could of afforded a Doodle at all. The "BYB" was a farmer and was Amish. So far so good, we have not had any problems with him.

Before we purchased Bear, I looked at the breed carefully and learned about them. Kendra from Vestal Noble helped me A LOT with all the questiosn I had for her. We wanted to have a Labradoodle, but when I looked at purchasing one, I could not believe the price. There was NO WAY I could afford one from a professional breeder.......the prices ranging from $1500 to $2400.............these prices were WAY out of our league. I was considering on purchasing one from Kendra, but knew I would have to work out some kind of "layaway" plan in order to purchase one of her Doodles. But at the same time, I was not sure if she would have wanted to do this and I really did not feel right asking her if she would. So when I saw an ad in the local paper, I wanted to check it out.

This "BYB" price was more in my ballpark. When we went to look at the pups, I knew what I wanted. When we got there, I looked around and how the environment was for all the pups. We were able to see both parents. I know you all are thinking I definitely bought from a "BYB", but as I have said before.........if this "BYB" was not selling the pups......I do not know if I would have been able to afford one.

Bear is the love our lives and we are soooo happy we got him from this family. He was definitely integrated with their family because he adapted so well with mine.

[LucyR]

Holly, You were lucky! Of course we are very happy that your purchases have worked out for you and that your dogs are wonderful. However for every Holly story with a happy outcome, there is also a sad one. Even purchasing a wonderful dog from the most ethical breeder in town does not assure an excellent dog, health or temperament-wise. However when the breeder has taken all the necessary precautions, your chances of having a calamity with your doggie are reduced. In most instances, money that you don't pay up front is paid down the line for health issues. There are exceptions and these are the individuals who will post. Am not sure that those who have purchased from a newspaper ad or a BYB and have had problems with the pups will be willing to share their stories and admit a mistake.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

"...money that you don't pay up front is paid down the line for health issues."
Jackdoodle's original owners purchased him from a pet store, so there is no doubt that he is from a BYB/puppy mill. His medical costs are astronomical. $1000 in the last month, plus all the over the counter stuff and incidentals like gasoline driving back & forth, time spent giving treatments, etc. Not to mention the sheer stress & worry.
His particular problems (immune system disease) did not start until he was well past a year old, and they get progressively worse with age. He will not live as long a life as he should, and he will suffer unnecessarily. This disease appears between the ages of 6 months and THREE YEARS.
I wouldn't wish this on anyone, and I sincerely hope & pray that nobody else's dog gets this. But I would never, ever take another dog again that didn't have every available health clearance known to man on both parents and preferably on the past 5 generations on both sides. That's what my last dog had, and that's what you get from an excellent breeder. I wish nothing but perfect health for everyone here's doodle(s), and no offense to anyone, but no dog should have to live the way my guy does.

[Holly Paterniti]

I am so sorry to hear about your experience :( You are right, no poochie should live that way :( I remember when I was younger my parents got me a poodle................and you will never guess where?

A petstore, but then that was over 30 years ago. Again, I am sorry to hear about Jackdoodle :(

[Holly Paterniti]

You are right about that.........I know with my 2 poodles, I kept in close contact with the family. I have seen the kids graduate and now they are getting married. When we lost Tyler, she was the first I called to let her know about his death. I then emailed her about Rolly. Now as for Bear's, I have not kept in contact with. I have tried to get my puppies from a family........and so far we have had 3 good dogs.

When I took Bear to his first vet visit, they said he was in terrific health. So, I guess we have been lucky, huh?