GI Troubles

[Andrew Altman]

Our almost 2-year-old Rosie has never missed the opportunity to eat in her life until a few weeks ago when she began to throw up about an hour after she would have her dinner. Based on the sound advice I have received from this group we have fed Wellness Core Original her whole life with absolutely no troubles. She began to shy away from her food and when she would eat she would ultimately throw it up again, and follow that with a loose stool. After a vet visit and determining that there was no blockage but more of just a GI infection we were sent home with some antibiotics and Royal Canin gastrointestinal canned food, which I know to be canned junk. Ten or more days passed and she was back to her Wellness and doing fine when she began to throw up again but more sporadically. The vet (who I realize does not have a nutritional background)  said to begin feeding the Royal Canin again. Are there any other alternatives to this or does anyone suggest probiotics or some other solution? What is so strange about this is it seemed like this started at the flip of a switch. We now have to be extremely careful on which treats to give her and absolutely no human food whatsoever. Rosie's sister eats from the same bag of Wellness and is not sensitive to any treats or food. Not really sure what steps to take next but I do appreciate the sound advice of everyone here. Thank you for your time. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Any time a dog is taking antibiotics, and especially metronidazole (Flagyl, which is most likely what your vet gave you), she needs to be on good probiotic for at least several weeks after the meds are discontinued. It makes me crazy that more vets don't know this, especially in light of the fact that it's now become fairly common knowledge in veterinary literature. So before you do anything else, order some Proviable DC capsules. 

The absence of a blockage doesn't automatically mean that the cause of her digestive issues is a GI infection. What tests were done? Vomiting as the primary symptom along with loss of appetite and sensitivity to food in general are not common signs of a GI infection. That can be an indication that there is an object in the GI tract, (often fabric or stuffing from a toy), that can't be digested. Foreign bodies can sit in the GI tract for weeks and longer. There are also a number of GI diseases that present with vomiting and loss of appetite, along with a sudden intolerance of many foods. 
There are no therapeutic or medicinal ingredients in the Royal Canin food, nor in any Rx food. It's simply a bland diet (of very poor quality) that is easy on the digestive system. It can't cure anything. Putting her back on it is pointless. I'd try a limited ingredient diet like Wellness Simple Solutions, perhaps the canned version, as that might be easier on her digestion. You might also consider using the Honest Kitchen base mix and adding your own chicken, beef, etc. 

I would start by asking the vet for an Xray and possibly an ultrasound if there is any chance that she might have eaten something she shouldn't have. An ultrasound is also often used to detect thickening of the bowel walls, which is a common symptom of GI disease. I'd also ask for a general blood panel, and if that doesn't show anything unusual, a GI panel. The latter must be sent out to TAMU and takes about a week to get results, and is used to diagnose GI disease. 

Hope this helps. 

[Andrew Altman]

Karen,

Thank you so much for your time and expertise. I will get the probiotics ordered for her and get her started on those. We did have the Xray and blood panel (both came back with no notable results) but have not had an ultrasound or GI panel, which sounds like if this continues maybe our next steps. 

I figured the Royal Canin food was worthless and I will get some of the Wellness LID to try her out on. Hopefully, we can figure out what the cause of this is and come to a more permanent solution to this. Again thank you so much for your help with this. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Please keep us posted, I know how frustrating this can be. 

[Kat and Winston]

My son is going through something similar with his dog(not a doodle).

Diarrhea and vomiting, stool sample showed high bacteria count .They gave an antibiotic and a probiotic. Fed chicken and rice for a few days and then started to reintroduce the food and dog vomited. They thought maybe it was actually the bag of food that was bad and had caused the bacterial problem, so stopped feeding it right away and  slowly introduced a new food. Things looked good....

Week or two passed and restart...vomit, diarrhea, bacteria count in stool high. Antibiotic for longer this time, dewormer just in case, and GI canned food for 6 days. Now they are starting on a new grain free food. I'm really hoping it works for them.

We've had our own stool issues with our puppy, basically since we brought him home, and so I have been homecooking. I switched from chicken/rice/sweet potato though to oatmeal and turkey/beef and things seemed to improve even more. I also added in a product called Prozyme and a probiotic as well and things have been going well enough that I'm slowly adding in some dog food. Starting with the wellness canned stews as they seem like they are a bit easier for digestion with only a few ingredients and hope to switch to the dry kibble for part of the feeds at some point.

Fingers crossed for all these puppies with tummy issues.

Anyways, you can always home cook instead of using the canned GI if you find yourself in that situation again. Just be sure to add the appropriate amount of calcium if it's more than a few days and longer term they would need some vitamins and oil added. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

That's why I recommended the Honest Kitchen base mix, because it contains all the vitamins and minerals, all you have to add is the protein source.

Unless a dog's blood work shows an enzyme deficiency, it's extremely unlikely that there would be an enzyme deficiency, and OTC digestive enzymes have been clinically shown to be basically a waste of money. They are broken down by the stomach acid just like anything else the dog eats. Dogs ( and people) make their own enzymes from the amino acids in the food they eat, and unless there is a serious condition like Exocrine Pancreatic Insuffficiency (which would show in blood work), enzyme supplements aren't needed. 

[Kamela & Beckett]

I would ask for an ultrasound. Our schnauzer just had her gallbladder removed after attempting to treat her biliary disease for the past year. Vomiting and disinterest in food can be symptoms of this and would be revealed with an ultrasound.

[Carrie Shepherd]

I agree with Kamela & Beckett. My Lucy suffered the same symptoms for almost 2 YEARS!! We kept changing Foods and finally it all came to a head, Lucy dehydrated 103 temp and wouldn't eat. She ended up in hospital for 2 days waiting for temp to drop and she start eating. Back at our vet insisted on ultrasound and sure enough she was diagnosed with Irritable Bowel Disease. Changed her to a strict diet. She will get extremely sick over time if I'm not careful with diet, treats and our other dogs food.
Good Luck and this is an awesome site for advice.

[Sherry Butler]

Are probiotics something we need to use on a regular basis? Reggie(11 months) had severe diarrhea several weeks ago and our vet said it was "garbage gut" We had been at a rarely used ball park to let him run out some energy and he found either coyote or deer poop. Our vet put him on metronidazole and I immediately started a probiotic. We continued the probiotic a couple of weeks after finishing the antibiotic. I've been lax about giving it to him the last few days. Should he take it daily even though everything is back to normal??

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There's no harm in giving probiotics on a regular basis if your budget permits. Probiotics are just beneficial bacteria that is necessary for proper stool formation; people often take them on a daily basis for digestive health. For healthy dogs or for maintenance, you can also just give plain unflavored nonfat yogurt every day or two. Lots of people do that themselves, too, lol.  

[Andrew Altman]

To bring things up to date, we started with the Proviable and Wellness Simple diet. The vomiting has still been occurring intermittently with no real pattern. After another trip to the vet, the stool sample was fine as was her blood. We were given a sample of Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Protein to test out. Any suggestions for an alternative to this? If things don't improve from here we will have the ultrasound to see if there is any kind of blockage.  She has not lost any weight and she seems to not really feel sick or act strangely. We have also cut out all treats to try and isolate if there is a specific allergy or food item that is causing all of this. We will get to the bottom of this somehow! 

Happy New Year! 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

If you have to use an Rx food, the Royal Canin HP is about as good as they get. That doesn't mean it's a good food nutritionally if you have another option, but it's better than the Purina or Hills versions. 

It's hard to imagine that the food is going to make much difference, but I hope it does. 

[Andrew Altman]

What is unique about the Royal Canin HP? Is there a substitute or similar product?