Choosing a Breeder -- Give your feedback on this Info Sheet

[Adina P]

I shared this on our DK Facebook page and the only thing anyone objected to was the statement about not having multiple litters at the same time.  The objection was because some breeders have guardian homes.  However, I'm not clear on how the guardian home makes a difference since dams come to the breeder's home for whelping and pups stay with the breeder till they go to new homes.  So how does the guardian home situation make a difference if a breeder has 5 litters to care for at the same time, for example?  Sure the 5 dams are getting individual love and devotion when they are not whelping or raising babies...but is the FIVE (example) litters at one time I have concerns about.  Please talk me through this.  Is there a better number to aim for?  No more than 2 litters at once? No more than 3 litters at once? 

If you have other suggestions for changes, please let me know!  It's also kind of boring without doodle photos, so I may add some.

[Frank & TeddyToyDoodle]

I'm new to the whole Doodle thing, so I am not an expert by any stretch.  My personal belief is not to shoot my mouth off on something if I am not well-informed or an expert.  Qualified opinions, etc.

That said....I think SOME of the Red Flags are somewhat questionable.  Specifically, compared to MOST DOGS it is my understanding that a Goldendoodle is pretty hypoallergenic and a good family pet.  No, nothing is 100% perfect and you can't predict that someone won't have an allergy to a particular breed or dog.  But my understanding is that the hypo claims are true in degree if not in the absolutist terms some may oversell it.  At least compared to many/most breeds, right ?

Non-shedding ?  Again, every dog has to shed SOME HAIR but at least my Toy Goldendoodle is pretty close to being a non-shedder (can't speak for the Mini's or Standard's).  I haven't found a hair from him in 5 months. He weighs 11 pounds so maybe if I had the 80-pound Standard we saw at a dog park yesterday things would be different.

Perfect family dog ?  I don't really know what that means but as dogs go, I can't see any problem using that phrase to describe a (Toy) Goldendoodle.  German Shepard ?  Pit Bull ? Mastiff ?  Rotweiller ? OK, then I think you can say there are much easier dogs to train, live with, and also not have to fear a dog or legal liability problem.

The other Red Flags I either agree with or am not qualified to talk about.

[Amy and Annabelle]

I think it is for the breeders who adamantly tell you or it says in their ad, that they are hypoallergenic. Especially the F1's that are 50/50, some of them are big shedders.They can make an educated guess based on their coat, but they are part retriever, who does shed, and a reputable breeder will not make that statement. There is always a chance they might shed, you don't know for sure what gene they picked up in the gene pool.

[Frank & TeddyToyDoodle]

Gotcha, thanks Amy....it's strange, Teddy is a Toy Goldendoodle but even with him being more Poodle than Retriever his hair looks much more Golden than the Minis and Standards I've seen.  Not sure if it will change as he grows older, but he was curlier and more Poodle-like when I first got him at 7 weeks.

While we're on the subject, can anybody tell me:  if the F1 is a 50-50 Retriever/Poodle...what is the designation and who are the parents of a Mini Goldendoodle?   And a Toy Goldendoodle ?  And what are the % of Retriever/Poodle for the Mini and Toy each ?

I can't get a straight answer from the Internet......

[Amy and Annabelle]

It is all about size, mainly height, and whose guidelines you go by. At a little less than 14" at the whithers, Annabelle is right on the cusp where she could be a toy under the guideline that cuts it off at 14", but would be a mini under the guideline that cuts it off at 13". I just call her a mini. Nothing is set in stone, which is why you don't seem to be getting a straight answer. You could have a toy goldendoodle who takes after the mini parent and a 40lb medium that takes after the larger parent. So that littler could have a toy, minis and a medium. Annabelles parents were an 11lb mini poodle dad and a 35lb goldendoodle mom. Her largest brother could be 40lbs, and she was 14.2lbs at her last vet appt.

[Frank & TeddyToyDoodle]

Thanks Amy.....I get you on the size differentials, my friend's son has a female Mini who is fully-grown and only 12 pounds, 1/2 of what you would think is the 25-35 pound range.

I was told -- or picked up, who knows -- that the Standard was 1/2 Retriever and 1/2 Poodle...the Minidoodle was the product of a Goldendoodle (female) and a male (Mini?) poodle.....and the Toy was a female Minidoodle and a male (Mini?) poodle.

I am guessing from reading here that the actual genetics can vary from breeder to breeder, so I guess I should contact mine to find out how they breed Standards, Minis, and Toys.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There is no breed standard for doodles; they are mixed breed dogs. There is absolutely no consistency for any of them: F1s, minis, toys, whatever the type may be. There is a huge range of sizes and coat types, even within the same litter. 

Regarding shedding, my F1 labradoodle sheds as much if not more than a purebred Lab, and he is not alone. We have a whole group here of owners with doodles who shed significantly. (BTW, you don;t really know how much your doodle will shed as an adult, after he goes thru the coat change.) There might have been some pups in Jack's litter who didn't shed at all. Huge variation of coats, even in the same litter. Some straight, some curly, some in-between. That's typical in mixed breeds. And there are doodles of all generations who shed heavily; even some multigens. The Poodle genes do not cancel out the heavily shedding genes of the retrievers, and any breeder who makes that claim is flat-out lying.

You can have two dogs from the same litter who are entirely different sizes, too, and I mean a variation of more than 20 lbs and more than 3 inches in height. Just like humans. I have one sister who is 5' 5" like me, and one sister who is 4' 10". Same parents, lol. As Amy says, when it comes to mixed breed dogs, nothing is set in stone. What one breeder calls a mini, another breeder calls a medium; there are no fixed terms. The breeders pretty much call them whatever they want to.

The same goes for the parents. The parents of a mini goldendoodle would depend on the generation and the breeder's whim. It could be a Purebred Golden and a purebred miniatrue Poodle, it could be a miniature goldendoodle bred back to a miniature Poodle, it could be two goldendoodles bred to each other, anything goes in the world of doodle marketing. The percentage of each breed is going to depend on the generation: F1, F2, F1B, F2B, F3, multigen, etc. 

[Amy and Annabelle]

My daughters are 6', 5'7" and 5'4", same mom and dad. But there is a foot height difference between my husband and I.

[Carolyn Shusterman]

No one can give you the answer because dogs have 78 chromosomes to our human 46.  This is such a big mix who can say what chromosomes are picked up from each parent. 

F1s usually shed (fur).  If the F1 is bred back to a poodle you could get a better chance of non shedding (hair).  No one should guarantee.  The Doodles with multi generations with pure bred poodles behind them have the greatest probability of non shedding (hair)    

NO such thing as hypoallergenic Doodles.  There are some people that are even allergic to hair.  The breeders should say allergy friendly for the multi generation Doodles.   

[Adina P]

No dog is a 'perfect family dog' out of the box.  many doodles are very high energy and require a lot of training to make them good family dogs.  But perhaps that isn't a breeder issue as much as an issue of inexperienced dog owners and unwise expectations.

[Frank & TeddyToyDoodle]

Thanks Karen & Carolyn for the great primer....I think I need to reach out to my particular breeder and see what she does and also deduce from Teddy's parents what his specific bloodlines are.

[Amy and Annabelle]

If you got Teddy from a breeder you should have all that info in the paperwork you received. I got a whole folder full of info on her and the parents and grand parents, all the health testing done on everyone and vax records in addition to the contract and health guarantee. Plus a boatload of other info on care and feeding, which we went over with the breeder before we left her house.

[Frank & TeddyToyDoodle]

I got a folder, but didn't read it cover-to-cover when I got Teddy since I was overwhelmed with my 1st dog.  Will take a look tonight or tomorrow.