Large breed puppy food

[EJ & Dante]

At Dante's first vet visit at 8 weeks, the vet recommended we give him large breed puppy food (we feed him Fromm puppy gold).  Our breeder doesn't start them on the large breed, and he was supposed to be 40-50 lbs, so we kept him on the Puppy gold, which he loves.

Dante is from the the 4th breeding of the mom/dad.  Most of the dogs from the three prior litters ARE in the 40-50lb range, I think one "might" be 52 lbs. I felt comfortable keeping him on the regular food, and at his shot visit, the other vet from the practice felt that was fine.   However, Dante is now 3 months old and just hit 20 lbs, he is running bigger than his littermates. The biggest one after him is 17 lbs, down to 15 lbs.  He was the biggest at birth, but only by 1 oz.  I'm strongly suspecting he will exceed the 50 lbs, perhaps be in the 60 lbs range.  If this is the case, should I switch his food?  It's just odd that NONE of the puppies from the prior 3 litters were his size at his age, and all are remarkably in the same weight range.

thoughts?

EJ & Dante

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Even if Dante ends up at 70 lbs, he still doesn't need a "large breed" formula. Even though the labels say they are for dogs over 50 lbs, they are really designed for the giant breeds who end up over 90-100 lbs like Newfs and Great Danes and who don't reach full skeletal maturity until well into their second year.

The only real difference between a "large breed" formula and a "regular" formula is that the large breed formulas contain slightly less fat and therefore, fewer calories. The reason for this is to prevent the giant breeds from gaining weight too rapidly before their slow-to-mature skeletons are able to handle it. There is also sometimes a very small difference in the mineral content which would really make no difference for most puppies of any size.

Keep in mind that there is no nutrition curriculum in vet school, and what most vets know about dog food comes directly from the Hills and Purina salesmen. That doesn't mean your vet isn;t a good vet, it just means that he/she is not a nutrition specialist. Neither is your doctor, lol.

I'd stay with Dante's current formula. 

[EJ & Dante]

Ah, that makes sense!  Thank you, I feel much better about his current food.  

Edie

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm glad. You have good instincts, lol. 

[Dr Karen Hoving]

My sheepadoodle, Bella, is 7 1/2 months. She's now about 45 lbs. After she had a bout of giardia, I changed her food (bc the brand we had wasn't on the recommended list). I put her on the FROMM Gluten Free brand- was told bc of the "sheep dog" parent to get the Fromm Large Breed.

When time passed and it looks like she won't be as big as other sheepadoodles (a friends dog is a month and 1/2 younger and about 60lbs) so I decided to move her to Fromms GF puppy. Well she hates it.Won't eat it. Don't ask me why...she pulls the food out onto the floor, tries to bury it...so I went back to the Large breed and she loves it.

SO, I know this sounds crazy-I looked at the nutritional difference but the flavor must be different bc she didn't see the bag-is it a bad thing? I thought I'd keep her on it until she was at a year and try to get her on Fromms GF Adult. 

Or is the plan of Fromms puppy small breed to keep them small by starvation? (JOKE).

Karen and Bella

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'd need to know the exact formulas of both Fromm foods (there are several "large breed" formulas, and none of the formulas is called "Gluten Free") to know if there is any difference in the ingredients. It's not a "bad" thing to feed a "large breed" formula, but you are probably going through food faster than you need to, due to the large breed formulas usually being lower in calories, so you have to feed more.  

[EJ & Dante]

Maybe it's the grain free?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, they have 3 different lines and there are many formulas in each line, many of which are grain free. I'm guessing it's in the Gold Nutritionals line. 

[Dr Karen Hoving]

Bella is eating:

From Heartland Gold Large Puppy Food

https://frommfamily.com/products/gold/dog/dry/#heartland-gold-large...

She hated: Heartland Gold Puppy

https://frommfamily.com/products/gold/dog/dry/#heartland-gold-puppy

They both have Beef as primary food. Both are Gluten Free.

Based on her adult weight (the breeder said her females tended to be around 60 lbs-that falls into the category of the Large Breed Puppy Food based on Fromm's chart.

So I guess I'll just keep her on that. But if you disagree, please let me know.

When I have time I'll print out and compare each of the bags to see not only what the ingredients are (which on quick glance look similar) but they may have diff protein/carbs etc.

Thanks to all-and thank esp to Dante who started the discussion! I gave my standard poodles Fromms (when I could only get one type-this is not the type she was on).

Karen and Bella Doodle

[EJ & Dante]

The heartland lists brewers yeast as an ingredient which isn't gluten free (I have to eat gluten free personally).
Brewer's yeast is a byproduct of beer making, and is contaminated with barley. It is used as a flavor and not for leavening (it is already spent). Not sure dogs have issues with gluten like humans, but thought I'd mention it.

[Dr Karen Hoving]

Thanks for the heads up.

I have celiac so have been GF since 2003. I was never a drinker (I have Lupus/RA so I avoid everything unless my rheumie gives it to me) but always heard that Beer was something to be avoided w/celiac.

So do you think the food is NOT technically GF? And honestly- I don't know why I went for it. My prior dog, a standard poodle, had bad bad skin probs later in life- itchy itchy! Now we live in CO so it is VERY dry and that could have caused it. I tried SO many single protein foods with her the last few years my wallet and head exploded. So I guess I just wanted to try to head off one thing if possible - I know all dogs are different.

I wonder if Fromms is aware of the yeast issue...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There is no evidence that dogs have problems with gluten, and the amount of gluten in brewer's yeast is infinitesimal anyway. I would not give it a second thought. Brewer's yeast has many benefits for dogs, including a rich supply of B vitamins, minerals, and antioxidants. It also makes the coat shinier and helps prevent dry skin due to the biotin content. I can assure you that your Poodle's skin issues were completely unrelated to brewer's yeast. 

[EJ & Dante]

I wouldn't worry about it for my dog at all, but I don't think that makes it "gluten free" .