giardia and coccidia and poop talk -- when to worry?

[Binny P]

Hi all --

Our pup was diagnosis with giardia and coccidia after we brought him home. We were a little surprised because even though we knew it was common, his poop had been pretty formed and solid, so we didn't see any signs. 

We have been doing meds for both and just finished the coccidia meds today and are suppose to take four days off the giardia meds before doing another round. However, about a day or two ago, pup's poop turned to pudding and there was a bit of mucus and blood in the past two -- just a small amount, but still. I started adding a little pumpkin and plain yogurt to his food yesterday. 

Does this mean the meds aren't working? Should we take him to the emergency vet? 

Thoughts? 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Binny, we've had many discussions here about this, and you will find a lot of info in the health and medical group about it. 

Many vets give metronidazole (Flagyl) for giardia, but it is not the most effective treatment and it has a lot of negative side effects, the most common one being that when you discontinue it, the diarrhea returns, often worse than ever. This is because the metronidazole kills all of the good gut bacteria necessary for proper stool formation. Repeated coruses of metronidazole in puppies can also lead to chronic stool/digestive problems and in some cases, can even cause permanent GI disease. (See this discussion for info on that: http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/an-update-on-woody-possibl...)

What you want is Panacur, not metronidazole. It is more effective and has no side effects to speak of. Ask your vet for that instead of the metronidazole. Insist on it. 

Any time a dog is on metronidazole or any antibiotic, you need to be giving a good probiotic. Order Proviable DC and in the meantime continue with the yogurt. 

It's not necessary to take him to the ER, but you may need a new vet. There is absolutely no excuse in this day and age for any vet to be prescribing repeated courses of metronidazole for giardia in a young puppy, or to neglect to recommend a good probiotic. 

[Binny P]

Hi Karen --

Thank you! I actually had it wrong -- he was on six days of Panacur (which we just finished) and doing two rounds of Albon for coccidia. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

That makes me feel much better. He does need a probiotic though. 

[Dolly Dykhouse]

Morning Binny!

Ahh, I so understand where you are at right now. Henry was diagnosed with Giardia at 10 weeks, we had soft stools that quickly progressed to the same pudding stools with mucas and blood that you speak of. Vet wanted to put Henry on Metro and Panacur; I vetoed the Metro (thanks Karen!) and went with the 5 days of Panacur. We retested at 10 days after the end of the Panacur (7-14 day incubation period so any sooner than 7 days is a wasted fecal test as it might not show cysts before that time) and he still had a high level of cysts. Henry did another round of Panacur this time for 10 days and we retested, this time there were no signs of cysts but it showed Giardia proteins were still in his bloodstream (totally normal as the proteins will show for up to 6 months, again, thanks Karen!) The test also showed Coccidia this time which was probably there all along so we did the 5 day treatment for that. I also started Henry on Proviable DC probiotics before he was even officially diagnosed with Giardia and have been giving them ever since along with plain yogurt and sweet potato for fiber. Henry is 19 weeks old and finally clear of parasites! 

The best advice I can give from what I have learned through his experience and the advice here on DK. First keep his environment clean of possibility of reinfection. Remove stool immediately and disinfect, I still have a 1 gallon spray pump that I got at Walmart filled with 9:1 ratio of bleach and water that I use to spray wherever he goes poop. We have a barked area that he uses to potty and I found that spraying is a two fold win with disinfecting and it keeps the flies away. Keep his floors and bedding washed with a bleach solution and wipe his behind with baby wipes as well as his feet. The second thing is to keep his GI tract as healthy as possible; puppies immune systems are fragile and don't develop the ability to fight the damage parasites can inflict until they mature so providing good probiotics gives their GI tracts the good bacteria needed so continue to give him yogurt and order some Proviable DC. It might be a long and frustrating road at times, some puppies need multiple treatments with Panacur and some only one.

Good luck and don't hesitate to ask questions everyone here is very supportive and Karen is a great source of information and experience!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

This is great advice, Dolly, thanks for chiming in.

Also, it's important to give the probiotics at least 2 hours apart from any meds, and longer is better. 

[Binny P]

Thank you! Super helpful!!!