Heel Struggles

[Stephanie Bowman]

Hi everyone!

We hired a trainer for our 15 week old pup a few weeks ago. We are working on the "heel" walking now, and Teddy is really having trouble understanding it. At first, we were having trouble with him going on walks at all, since he would cry every time it wasn't in our backyard and would jump on us so we could carry him. Now, he is confident in walking around our neighborhood but pulls a lot on the leash, sometimes even choking himself to the point of coughing. Our trainer insists it's good practice to have him walk on our left, right next to us, using the traditional leash only instead of a harness. Anyone experience a similar issue?

Read more here: http://www.doodlekisses.com/groups/group/show?groupUrl=trainingmind...

[Anita Lee]

15 weeks is still very young.

My opinion is you should consult a different trainer. If he is choking himself on the leash and collar, you need a harness. Using the right harness, for example an Easy Walk, will help speed up the learning process.

[Stephanie Bowman]

Thanks for your advice! I will try to walk him with a harness instead. I preferred that initially to be honest because I'm so afraid of him hurting his little neck (and he pulls so much he has to be), but the trainer insisted that for training purposes, a traditional leash allows more control.

[sandy b]

We have always used an easy walk harness for several reasons. First it's safer and not easy to pull out of like a collar. Second if your pup is pulling you won't choke him or damage the neck.

You can walk him on either side but most trainers prefer walking on your left. We have to walk on a busy bike path and walked Henry on our right for safety when he was very young. We now walk him on either side, he is comfortable with both.

Are you using treats?

[Stephanie Bowman]

I think our training company seems to be very old-fashioned in their training. Though they only encourage positive reinforcement tactics, they still insist that a traditional leash/collar allow for more control and that he should always be to our left. I personally don't mind what side he's on as long as he isn't doing anything that could possibly hurt him. We are using treats but maybe aren't using enough?

Do you put your dood in a "sit" before giving treats or do you do it as you walk?

[sandy b]

Yes, example left side. Sits on left side, hold treat between thumb & index finger of left hand. Position treat directly in front of dog's nose, palm facing forward away from dog. Say heel and take a few steps forward starting on your left foot. Stop & treat. If you move your hand back over his head he will automatically sit because he will be looking at the treat!

We actually started this exercise inside with no leash and used a clicker. Our trainer said for a very young pup outside distractions were sensory overload. So practiced first inside no leah, then leash and eventually moved outside.

You just have to be patient and go slow, puppy steps lol!! Your pup is very young.

Hope this helps.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I started out using an EZ Walk harness because I adopted Jack at 14 months, and he was a big strong dog who pulled like a freight train. For a long time, I swore by the harness and even recommended it here several times.

However, when we did our CGC training and test, it was much harder than it should have been, because Jack had to learn to walk with a collar and leash; no harnesses allowed. I would never use a harness again with any dog. 

In addition, there have been several posts here on DK by Stella, our resident canine physiotherapist, about the orthopedic issues that the EZ walk harness can cause. JD did have severe orthopedic issues, including a henriated lumbar disc, and while there is no way of knowing that they were caused or exacerbated by the harness, it's something to be aware of. 
I will try to do a search to find the info.

In the meantime, I stick by my original advice; teach your dog to walk nicely with a plain collar and leash. It really matters if you ever want to do any training at CGC or higher levels. 

[Anita Lee]

Good point, Karen. In my opinion, you can have a great dog without taking CGC exam. We took the CGC class when our dog was 2. Personally, I'm not sure if I noticed a big difference taking the harness off, but I think by that time she had already learned the correct behaviors.

Thanks for linking to Stella's post. Hopefully someone else can confirm, but I think this is a good Y-shaped one to use: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MR5L6MB/ref=twister_B00M81FS8I?_encodi...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

One of Stella's posts about the issues with the harnesses: 

http://www.doodlekisses.com/m/discussion?id=2065244%3ATopic%3A4736339

[Sebastian and Chester's Mom]

In my Livestock Guardian Dog groups, I encourage people to try out different types of equipment (leashes, collars, head halters, and harnesses), and figure out what works best for them and their dogs.  I have used the Easy Walk Harness with mine for the last five years with no issue, and then was introduced to the Freedom Harness for times when I need more control.  I use both of them with my two.

I have friends who love the Gentle Leader and other head halters, and absolutely swear by them.  Sebastian absolutely shut down and refused to move.

Also, keep in mind that just because you use something at this process in his training, that doesn’t mean that you have to commit to it for life.  If you are afraid that he is going to hurt himself on a collar, you can try a halter or harness with him while he is learning to heel, then work on transitioning those skills to times when he is wearing a traditional collar.

If you are planning to go further in Teddy’s training, then yes, I agree that you should encourage him to walk on your left side. However, my personal philosophy (with which everyone is absolutely within their right to disagree) is that it is very much a personal decision on whether or not a dog should be expected to walk in heel position all the time.  I tried it with Sebastian when he was a puppy, and with his personality, it backfired spectacularly.  I could probably get Chester to do it, but he really does seem to enjoy his free walking time now that he is used to it.  Both of mine know the difference between “working (obedience)” time, and “free-walking” time.  For that matter, the Poodles and Boxers I showed in Obedience when I was growing up did, too.

[Mike H]

I use the gentle leader and have really found it effective in controlling any kind of pulling. We used it when Denali was a very young puppy, and she got used to it and doesn't mind. I've seen older dogs struggle a lot getting used to a gentle leader, since it feels really unnatural. The dog can't really tug against this type of harness due to how it mechanically pulls at their nose. The main downside is you cannot issue any kind of leash corrections or influence the dogs path by tugging - since it will hurt them. The upside is that once the dog "gets it" regarding expected walking behavior, pretty much anyone can control the dog, even when they go into extreme "catch the squirrel" mode (Denali is about 50 lbs and very strong).

The main issue with normal flat collars is the leash pulling often reinforces an instinct to oppose the tugging sensation. The dogs don't generally care that they are suffocating, pulling against the tug is more instinctive :) You can attempt to train a "heel" behavior, but a formal heel requires a lot of attention/focus from the dog, and generally that gets old during a walk. You don't want to constantly be training during your walks, but maybe that's just me.

Any obedience teacher/class will generally require that you use a flat collar instead of harnesses/halters. This has to do mainly with the idea that when influenced by treats and in "training mode" (doodles seem to love food and getting trained), the dog should be controlled by their behavior rather than mechanical constraints imposed by equipment. Another reason, as mentioned earlier, any AKC sanctioned event (I think this is true) will generally not allow any kind of harnesses - we do AKC agility and I can't even have her on the GL anywhere on the grounds! In CPE the dog can't even have a collar on while they run, so having good leash behavior before/after a run is critical.

Although most in classes aren't thinking about any kind of competition/titling, I think trainers generally do tcompete, and want to prepare their students should they ever do this. E.g. why a formal heel is always to the left.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Here is a response I gave in an earlier discussion in this group on teaching a puppy to walk nicely at your side....hopefully it helps.  The pups name was Izzy.

Izzy is just a baby so you'll have to take some "baby steps" for now.  This is the time when you can teach her to focus on you and to understand that there are some "rules" for the walk.  I would start inside and several times a day I'd leash her, grab a few small treats, and take a few steps right in the house.  If she's right by your side and not pulling, "good girl" and treat.  Be careful not to get too excited with the praise because that sometimes gets makes them lose their focus at this age.  Do this exercise a lot.  If she starts to pull at all...verbally correct...and stop or turn around.  Try again.  Keep these sessions short.  When she has the idea take her outside and practice in the yard doing the same thing.  For a while you'll probably only be able to go a few yards with her being focused on you.  Always use a command word like "walk" or "heel" so she knows that you're working versus just having a fun walk and never use that word unless you are going to be able to follow through and not allow her to pull.  If she does pull after you've given the command you need to stop and have her sit for a minute or turn and change direction or stop the exercise all together.  You don't want her to be able to practice pulling once you've given the command.  You'll need to introduce distractions slowly or else you'll be setting her up to fail.  It really doesn't matter what collar you use  because you're not going to be giving any collar corrections at this point.  When she's around five months you can decide what program you're going to use for her overall obedience training and that's when the collar becomes a little more important.  The Doggy Dan Program has some good information about training a puppy to walk by your side.  You might want to take a look at that.

Read more here: http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/collars-and-leashes-and-wa...

I really believe that you can use whatever collar/harness you are most comfortable with.  As others have said it's important to understand that if you want to go on with your training to CGC you will not be able to use a harness and will have to retrain your Doodle with a flat collar.  The harness is a tool that helps prevent pulling but it does not teach the puppy the behaviors you want during a walk.  You might want to google the Doggy Dan Program.  It's an online training program that several DKers have used and recommended.

[Susan & Randy's Kate]

I live in SW MO and there is a great dog training facility here. Before they board or can train you have to show proof of immunization and your dog spends a day there for evaluation free. They don’t want really unbalanced dogs. To be in general population they'd have to be at least two weeks post neuter. They video during the day so you can see how your dog intereracted with the other dogs. Next you can have your dog goes for full day private training with an hour of people training. John Lopez explains why your dog behaves the way he does and gives you a special collar if needed. You also get 6 weeks group training.  Our dog qualified for Good Citizen training. AKC Has program where they have to pass 10 tests then they are CGC. You can use treats or special collars or harnesses first few weeks but during last few and during tests no treats or special training gear. The dog can be pure bred hybrid or any combination. 

 They also have a six week puppy program before CGC. They can also use special gear. We trained at home. I use a walker and our latest is a boxer puppy. Just what you should get if you’re 71 - A puppy. We have our labradoodle, shih tzu and now 8 month boxer. She’s my 24th dog. So using specialty gear is ok during training period to help you. Once you have their respect and they are calmer smith to regular collar.