Positive reinforcement training ("Perfect Puppy" by Dr. Sophia Yin)

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

Does anyone here have experience trying the "Perfect Puppy in 7 days" method of positive reinforcement training?  DH and I have been reading this book by Dr. Sophia Yin and the method seems pretty sound but very rigorous and time-consuming.

It basically involves rewarding the dog with treats for asking politely for everything by sitting (including affection, greetings, going out etc.), tethering or crating at all times and using very few cue words but mostly physical cues (like being on a hands-free leash).

We are expecting a litter of puppies to be born any day now so starting to look into things!

This is the book I'm talking about:

https://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Puppy-Days-Start-Right/dp/0964151871...

Before I compile a list/"game plan" of how we are going to go about training I wanted to see if anyone had tips.  DH is planning on taking a week or so off with puppy when we bring it home to give us a good start on training since we'll be moving a couple weeks later (yikes!).

Thanks!

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

Thanks!  Yeah it does seem heavy on the time commitment (which we do not have lol) though the basic ideas are still valuable and should be a good foundation.  

[Judith and Addie]

I have not used this book but understand that Sophia Yin has an excellent reputation and I highly recommend positive only training - which does work for all dogs. All training takes work and there are too many down sides to aversive training.  

The book I used when my pup, Addie, came into my family was a book by Dr. Ian Dunbar "Before and After Getting your Puppy: The Positive Approach to Raising a Happy, Healthy, and Well-Behaved Dog". You might want to take a look at this because it may be easier to follow.

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

We've never used aversive training (on dogs or kids!) but since this our first large breed dog we are being extra cautious about having a very well-behaved pup.  I'll see if I can find some info on that book that doesn't require buying it, it's pretty expensive!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I have used aversion training- back in 1977 when I trained my first puppy, that's all there was. While I have no desire to go back to that, I do have to say that I had a very well-trained dog (actually the best trained out of all I've owned, and the only one with a 100% recall off-leash no-matter-what) who did not seem to suffer any ill-effects from her training. 

I think there has to be a way to let a dog know that they are doing the wrong thing, without harsh punishments. Ignoring just isn't enough in some situations.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I just took a look at this book and I like a lot of what I read, but I think there are several things that are not practical for the average dog owner.  Here are a few of my thoughts..

-I really like that she walks through the way puppies develop and how important it is to their future development for a breeder to provide systematic and controlled exposure to lots of stimuli.  I think it reinforces how important it is to find the right breeder to ask lots of questions about exactly how the puppy was "raised" during their first eight weeks.

-I really like her controlled approach to housebreaking...lots of rules that are consistent and if followed should work well IMO.

-I've always been a believer in the "nothing in life is free" approach for puppies and adult dogs.  In her own way, she is using that approach to train.  She requires that the dog "says please" which in her terms means sitting calmly before getting what they want.....including affection, play, food, etc.  I have always believed that "earning" all good things makes a lot of sense.

-I personally would have a hard time with all of the tethering, but I fully agree that keeping the dog right where you can see him to quickly divert from any "mistakes" and reward calmness is great.  I still do that with my guys.  When I'm on the computer they are lying by my side.  I don't give them treats for laying calmly but I do make sure to look at them and tell them they are "good boys" every once in a while.

-I like that she points to the need to control the environment.  For example, if the garbage isn't covered it's likely not fair to expect a dog to avoid it.

-I have a little trouble with the dog never being fed from a food bowl....getting their full meal from training rewards or toys is going a little far for me.  I do believe there is a lot they can learn from how we present their food at meal time.

This is what I saw from just a quick scan of the book.  I think it's unrealistic to suggest that your puppy will be perfect in 7 days and I don't believe for the average dog this method would produce that kind of a "miracle".  I also believe that it's okay to correct your dog...not with harsh collar corrections...but by letting them know they made a mistake.  I still tell my guys "no" when they're behaving in a way I don't like....and then I show them what they should do.  With all the dietary restrictions my guys have if I depended totally on treats to train them they would not be manageable in lots of situations.  For me it's all about balance and mutual respect. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Thank you, Jane, this makes so much sense. 

[Stacy]

I'm not familiar with this book but it sounds just like what our private trainer says. He asks them to sit to say please, and really promotes hand feeding. No bowls for us for at least a month. 

I liked him a lot and it was so helpful to talk to him about what was going on with Maggie and how I felt. But we didn't train the dog at all. I could not lure her into a sit with a treat. I couldn't shape the behavior because she didn't offer anything. His toolbox seemed to be kind of limited with positive reinforcement. Or maybe he just didn't want to push her because she was so afraid. It wasn't until I took her to the kennel club (where they do use training collars and prong collars on some dogs) and they told me to make her sit. It was like a lightbulb came on. So it wasn't positive reinforcement, but it wasn't abusive either.

I think for most people there is some sort of middle ground between pure positive and force training. I don't think there's anything wrong with a corrective collar as long as the dog is being taught. If I used one the goal would be to get to a point where we didn't need it anymore. 

I'm really enjoying this conversation. I would love to have more discussion about specific training issues. I was watching some youtube videos of novice rally and novice obedience. I think Maggie is doing really well, but I watched those and wondered how I'm ever going to teach her to do some of those things!

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

Thank you for your insights, very helpful!

I was also wary of the "all the food goes to training" approach since our vet has always said it's best to meal feed for potential future medications etc. and to get them used to it.

[Sebastian and Chester's Mom]

I am a fan of Dr. Yin’s work, but have not read this book.  I will say that I tend to be wary of any method that promises any sort of “perfection” in any certain time frame.

From what you describe, the book sounds like it promotes the NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free) protocol (what Dr. Yin calls Earn to Learn), and lots of supervision.  I have found both of those concepts to have helped tremendously with my two.

The Dr. Yin book that I would recommend is How to Behave so Your Dog Behaves.  I would also encourage you to look into Dr. Patricia McConnell’s writings, particularly her book, The Other End of the Leash.

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

Thank you for the book suggestions!  I'll check those out.

I would like to point out that there is *another* book that is not QUITE the same (think shades of grey) also called "The other end of the leash". lol.  Got a chuckle out of that looking for the dog training book.

[Sebastian and Chester's Mom]

Maybe that explains why Sebastian (my 115 lb. Saint Bernard/Great Pyrenees mix) still likes to give me “Special Hugs” when he gets overly excited!

I’m going to have to check his reading list very carefully! 

Too funny!

[BG and Gavin]

J did you check out the doggy Dan method. His philosophy seemed to resonate with me.