Poodle Colors (and other questions)

[Stacy]

I know we don't have a large group of poodle people in the doodle forum, but sometimes it's intimidating to walk into a group of poodle experts and ask the novice questions. Sometimes a girl confuses a cairn terrier with a border terrier and is persona non-grata forever! So, I thought maybe I could bring some questions here as I gain some poodle knowledge for the future. 

AKC doesn't recognize multi-colored poodles for conformation purposes. And I had a lightbulb moment the other day (thanks, Karen!) about how good AKC breeders feel about people breeding multi-colored poodles. But I still don't understand why. I've done a little reading and it looks like multi-colored poodles have been around forever. Has AKC ever recognized them? I thought I read that, but now I can't remember my source. 

My other question is UKC. I know there are a lot of... not well respected breeders who get championships from UKC and then sell puppies as champion bred. And that it isn't the same thing to be a UKC champion as an AKC champion. But I've also read that AKC conformation is highly political and it's nearly impossible for an owner handled poodle to get a championship. That it's more about who you are and know than about the dog. Now, that might just be sour grapes from someone who isn't winning, but is it possible that it will become so political that good breeders will start showing in UKC, giving it more legitimacy? 

I also don't understand why other countries recognize a moyen size poodle and AKC doesn't. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Photo from the dog park today, just for fun:

[Stacy]

Someone needs to caption this one. Those two dogs look like they're having quite the conversation and Jasper is like, oh, I'm just going to lay right here, and look how cute my belly is. 

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

lol - "I don't know what you guys are talking about I'll just stay right where I am"

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

I especially don't understand why people who like F1B doodles but say they wouldn't get a poodle.  I mean it's 3/4 poodle at that point... poodles are great dogs I don't get it.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Neither do I. And it's the main reason Poodle people have bad attitudes against doodles. I mean, a Golden or a Lab owner understands it when someone says "I love Goldens (Labs) but I just couldn't handle all the shedding." That's not an insult to their breed. But "I wanted a dog that doesn't shed but I don't like Poodles." ???? Um.....
I wouldn't get a dog who was even half of a breed I dislike. The only explanation I can think of is that a lot of doodle owners really believe that stupid marketing crap that ALL you are getting from the Poodle is the non-shedding and the intelligence. Everything else will be from the Retriever. Even when three of the four grandparents are Poodles, lol.
And your baby is going to have your DH's hair and his intelligence, and every single other quality and feature is going to be completely you. 

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

The marketing is bad... especially with places like a certain factory-style breeder from around here that we've discussed before when I was puppy hunting.

DH and I both agreed that we wanted a *chance* at a dog that didn't shed, but as we quickly learned with Luna that is definitely not what always happens. 

Fingers crossed so far I haven't seen a single hair come off Riley :p  There's no hiding black AND white hairs using careful clothing selection if you have a shedding multicolor dog!

[Stacy]

Denim. Denim is your only friend. I had black and white Papillons - and whoever told me they didn't shed was a big fat liar! But I hope Riley isn't a shedder. It makes for a lot of grooming, but it's so convenient not to have hair everywhere.

[Stacy]

If the information I found about Maggie is correct I think she's 88% poodle. Her mom was an F1b - so 75% poodle and her dad was a poodle. At that point she's so much poodle you might as well forget the doodle part. Even the dog people think she's a poodle unless they look really close. Something about her eyes or nose gives it away, but she's built like a poodle.

[Stacy]

I found that article I read about parti-colored poodles being around for a long time in my bookmarks. Not trying to change your opinion, but I thought it was an interesting read from 1964. 

https://www.nytimes.com/1964/03/26/archives/news-of-dogs-twotoned-p...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, this article from 1964 is entirely anecdotal; it's an interview with one person, who is giving us his opinion. Only his, lol. 

The thing is, nobody knows when or how the modern Poodle breed evolved into what it is now. Could there have been parti-colored dogs involved, and could there have been many parti-colored Poodles around centuries ago? Sure. Could it have been the norm in 1600? Maybe.
I have read that originally, all Poodles were black, some having a bit of white here and there. I think there is a lot of opinion and speculation about this, and no real absolute info.

I can't say what the reasons were for the AKC's decision that only solid colored Poodles could compete in competition. I disagree with the man in this interview who says that they are more photogenic and "agreeable to the eye". I find the opposite to be the case, but that's me. In general, even in breeds that are typically parti-colored, like Tibetan Terriers, I like the markings to be symmetrical. I dislike the appearance of any dog with black around one eye and white around the other. This is simply my taste and my preference, and I totally get it that other people think that's adorable. 

[Stacy]

Oh yes, completely anecdotal. It was more of an, I swear I read that somewhere and didn't make it up. I think it's also where I got the idea that at one time the multi colored dogs were shown - exhibition class. I don't think I'm ever going to be completely convinced that parti colored poodles aren't pretty. I just like the look. I started my dog life with a breed that is always parti colored. I'm sure that has something to do with it.

I do respect the fact that the best poodles from the most respected breeders aren't parti colored or phantom or brindle. And when I do start searching for the poodle of my dreams I will be looking for the best poodle from the best breeder I can find. I have too many regrets about Katie's breeder to make that mistake again. 

It would be interesting to know the rational behind the color restriction. I know that some colors have health implications, but I haven't read anything about that in poodles. Of course, just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not a thing. 

There's this tiny part of me that really really wants to take everything I've learned over the last five years and start with the right puppy from the very beginning and see if I can make the perfect dog. I feel like I've done a really good job with Maggie. Just think if she had started as a puppy. I just don't think it would be fair to either one of them to bring a new puppy home to take all of their attention right now. But the more I watch what the training people do with their dogs the more I really want to do all of those things! I can't even get Maggie to come in from the yard!

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I know you can explain the technicality but to the normal dog like me, silver poodles are pretty much parti colored - they are different from each other, they have a variety of shadings on their ears, noses, faces, legs, tails -  and are not solid.  So there! I say parti-on! 

Respectfully from Charlie (who pretty much matches).