Metronidazole, probiotics and poop

[ks-man]

Yes, the title was intended to get Karen's attention ;)  Thought it was better to do a thread rather than PM in case others have similar questions. 

Cannoli had giardia 6 weeks ago and was put on Panacur, metronidazole and Proviable DC.  We continued the Proviable (and a little pumpkin) for 18 days after he finished the metronidazole.  Within a day or two of stopping the proviable his stool got very soft and eventually diarrhea.  

Our vet put him on a bland diet of wet RX canned food which firmed up the stool.  We gradually weaned him off the RX food back to his kibble but the day he had all kibble the stool started getting soft again. 

The vet recommended that we give him a quarter can of the RX food with every meal or 2 tablespoons of pumpkin with every meal for the foreseeable future to get him some extra fiber.

I'm now wondering if either instead of or in addition to the extra fiber if he should go back on a probiotic.  His stool is firmer then it was but he still has some soft stools here and there.

Also, this morning was the second time that he has thrown up in his crate at around 5am.  He usually gets up between 6:30-7am.  I took him out and he pooped a ton.  I think the throw up was simply a reaction to waking up or else because he had to poop and didn't want to go in his crate.  He didn't whine or cry to get out first, just heard him gag.

So two main questions, would you recommend I get him back on Proviable for a while and any reason I should be concerned with him throwing up in his crate (previous time was about a week ago).

Thanks!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You generally switch them to two meals a day around four months, so you can do that now. It might help with the stool issues a little, too. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Definitely do not give the psyllium more than twice a day; when I said to add it to meals, I was assuming two meals per day. :) 

[ks-man]

Thanks Karen!  Just curious, why is a baked sweet potato better than canned pumpkin for him?  

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, aside from being a lot cheaper, lol, it's more nutritious and has more fiber. And most dogs like it a lot better.

[Connie]

We eat a lot of baked sweet potatoes here and it's a battle with our crew.... they love them!! Yummers! We cant feed the skins... they tend to vomit them up, not sure why but it's my favorite so that's ok. I get those ;-)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Yeah, no skin for the dogs. :) 

[ks-man]

Cannoli has been on the Proviable and 1/4 teaspoon of Psyllium Fiber along with sweet potato or pumpkin twice a day for about a week now and his stool has definitely firmed up.  There are the occasional looser stools but they're still formed and those have been rarer the past couple of days too!

I'm starting to add back other foods and treats again and hopefully things will stay the same.  Assuming it does I intend to continue the Proviable for quite some time since I don't see any harm other than cost which I don't mind.  I was wondering about the Psyllium and if I should continue that for a while or if I should wean him off it once I'm confident that new foods have been added without issue.  

Thanks!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Your plan sounds perfect to me. Keep up the probiotics, but once you feel confident about his digestion and diet, you can discontinue the psyllium. You can even try cutting back the amount you are using now if you like, although i would wait until everything is added back into his diet.

[ks-man]

So Cannoli has been off the psyllium for about two weeks.  He still takes the probiotic with a little pumpkin or sweet potato once a day.  Everything had been going well and his stools was generally firm until yesterday though there were occasional loose stools and the color was often a little more yellow than I thought normal.  Starting yesterday afternoon he pooped a ton and a lot of it was very soft and mushy.  He then had a little diarrhea in the evening and last night woke me up three times to go out and had diarrhea.  He had some diarrhea again this morning after breakfast.

I'm debating now if I should put him back on the psyllium or if it is time to switch to another food.  He has been eating Fromm Puppy Gold since we got him from the breeder.  I feel he's been dealing with stool issues since we first got him (though he may have had the starting of giardia when we got him) so it might make sense to see if he does better with a different food.

I thought I'd see what people thought here (fiber vs. food change) and if we decide to try a new food I'll take this over to the food group.  I haven't had a stool sample done in about 6 weeks though if I want to do one it will need to wait until Tuesday due to the holiday weekend.

Thanks so much!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

How old is he now?
I'd go back to the psyllium until you can get a fecal test done. If he does have giardia, the psyllium alone will not fix the stool issues. I don't think it's the lack of psyllium causing this, or it would have started sooner than two weeks after stopping it.

I can make a recommendation for a food change, but I'd like his current age first. I also don't think you should introduce a new food when there are stool issues going on, because that will confuse the issue. 

I don;t remember if I ever asked you this, but did Cannoli come from a breeder in the Pacific Northwest by any chance? 

[ks-man]

He's 6 months old now.  He came from a breeder near Rockford Illinois.  I'll get a fecal done next week but just have a gut feeling that this is food related rather than giardia again.  I'll start the psyllium back up but thinking there is something in the Fromm Puppy Gold that doesn't sit well with him.  

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It's possible, I guess. But if that were the case, I'd think he would always have loose stools, no matter what else you did. 

IF it is the food, you're going to want to go with a limited ingredient grain-free formula. These types of formulas are not available in "puppy" versions, so he'll need to go to an ALS (all life stages) formula. Which is perfectly fine; many dogs never eat foods that are made strictly for puppies, but are started on ALS formulas from the beginning.

The food that has worked best for people here whose dogs have sensitive stomachs and food-related GI issues is Wellness Simple Limited Ingredient. There are four proteins to choose from, I recommend either the Salmon & Potato or the Turkey and Potato. 
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/simple-dogs