Day 6 of 7-Day Mini Course

[Adina P]

Lesson 6: Adding cues (stimulus control)

This lesson actually uses a cue/command that some of your dogs already KNOW...so you might try to refine it by only clicking perfect ones or fast ones.
Discuss!

[Zoe, Benny and Tyler]

Haha, I commented on lesson 5 earlier that Benny learned everything and does also the cue/commands perfect BUT inside. I just went on a walk with him and tried it outside with distractions. It works for sit but not for down or come when another dog is approaching. I thought so already but that only means giving him more time with training inside until he does it in his sleep and keep on training outside with distractions as well.

[Linda and Murphy]

This is something I have learned with agility and find frustrating. Dogs don't generalize. Weave poles in the front yard are not the same as weave poles in the backyard (or at a competition). I suggest trying many different locations, even small changes can help (front and backyards, different rooms)

[Doodle Kisses]

I agree with Linda! It's almost like teaching all over with new distractions...and you'll have to have $1,000,000 treats (in the dog's mind)...AND you need to add VERY small changes/distractions a little at a time. So going from living room to outside in the presence of dogs...far too much of a leap.

Essentially...when it comes to positive training (esp clicker) when the dog 'fails' it means we (the human) have made it too hard. Since we are essentially working on the principles of conditioning ... you can only condition a dog to so many novelties at a time.

If a dog 30 feet away is too distracting...step back to 50.

If a sit-stay for 30 seconds is too difficult...step back to 20, 10...whatever it takes to reach a lot of success to build on.

Distance
Duration
Distraction

All three of those must ONLY GRADUALLY be increased so the dog can get it right at least 8 out of 10 times. Less than that clicker says you've made it too hard...dog isn't yet conditioned enough for that much change.

[fergie11]

Fergie does great at class even with all the other strange dogs around. She's like a horse, she knows when she's in the show ring and should do her stuff. When she's outside with her friends, Ha-Ha. Nobody cares about this she thinks- certainly not her friends. Speaking of a horse, they are really bad. Because of where there eyes are on there head you have to teach behaviors in both directions. Because they can go along fine in one direction doesn't mean they can do it in the other. Be glad we don't have to worry about that.

I think it takes a long time for them to do good outside with another dog approaching. I'd like to here comments from members about how long that took them and how far they were in obedience before they could be trusted with that. A young child should not be trusted to cross the street by himself until he's 7 or 8, if I remember right. Let's not push it.

I'm thinking out loud. This post is more for me than it is for others. I get frustrated and want things now. I need to slow down.

[fergie11]

I'm confused. How does the dog know what we want them to do if we don't tell them. I've got the stick, Ive got the mouse pad to touch. How do they know what to do. Maybe you don't understand that. So the dog is standing in front of me and she knows I've got that clicker. We don't click until after the action. Let's say they know how to sit and down and even rollover. If we don't say anything, how do they know what to do? Which are they supposed to do?????? If I don't get it, how do they? I know my dogs are smarter than me.

[Doodle Kisses]

I think we are talking about two diff things.

When learning a new behavior there is no cue word...with practice the dog learns to 'try' stuff to figure it out. As the dog consistently offers this new behavior in a session you can teach the dog WHAT the behavior is called (sit, shake, bow, down, stay, etc). Once you have put it on cue you are done with the clicker for THAT behavior (unless later you decide to refine it).

Once you've added a CUE (word that tells the dog the behavior u are asking for) then you can use it.

Does that clarify?

The reason we are doing a bunch of things without cues at first is to help your dog understand how clicker works and get him/her to try LOTS of things and learn his/her actions get the click...they have to try stuff and think.

[Doodle Kisses]

Another try...if they already KNOW certain cues...then you would JUST use the clicker to click better and better performances of those behaviors. So no need to re-teach SIT unless sit is sloppy or slow. This course assumes that your dog may not know any cues YET...so you can just improve your current behaviors and you can say the cue.

But for NEW behaviors you would shape or capture it with the clicker. Shaping is working with what the dog offers and slowly clicking closer and closer approximations to the full finished polished behavior. Capturing is catching your dog in the middle of a cool behavior (stretching after a nap could be turned to 'take a bow' for example) and clicking/treating everytime your dog does it.

[fergie11]

You know Adina, discussed this program in depth with a lot of people. I'm so glad we had this opportunity to explore it. If the click is the YES, no need to have a clicker. I still cannot see any benefit in the clicker. Just my opinion.

[Adina P]

For me (and those I've talked with who use it) find it to be FASTER than using your voice, more crisp & precise, and always consistent in sound. It also makes it hard to keep treats in your hand (a good thing!) and accidentally train the dog to only listen when you have a treat visible. You can click and THEN get the reward that is hidden. I just think faster clicking than saying words. I 'talk' more in typing than in real life too .. LOL, maybe that's why. I can react with my fingers better.

Now that doesn't mean you can't use "YES" or good...the program actually suggests you charge a word as well as the clicker, however, whatever word you use must be as 'sacred' as the clicker. That means you ALWAYS treat after the word or click...ALWAYS. It's harder to do that with words, in my opinion, because it's easy to use them in every day talking... you might say "YES" on the phone to happy news or "Yes" just because you're proud of your dog...and it can dilute the power of the marker.

So...really...whether you click or use a word for a marker, the same principles apply and you can do either or both, provided you do it correctly. You can use the program either way. Most clicker experts vote for the clicker as the best marker, but that doesn't mean that "YES" or a mouth click won't do.

[Cathy, Zoe, and Tucker]

Well, I am behind a few days as we were on the road. Today on Day 6 we had our first 'failure'. Gus decided to offer a Sit before I gave the cue. Then he decided what I wanted was a "wait". So he waited....and if I walked away, well mom sometimes does that to test his "wait", so he waited. We did not learn to sit only on command.
Zoe had a different idea. She offerred the sit, when that did not get the desired response she decided we were playing "what else can you do?" We play this from time to time. The dogs offer a trick, then they have to think of a different trick...if they repeat one they have already done I ask "what else can you do?" So Zoe just thought that was the strategy for today.
Neither dog offers Down on a first try so that didn't get the idea accross to them to wait for the command either.
SIGH they are such good dogs that I hope we can do the next steps after failing step 6. At age 4 and 5 there are going to be some behaviors that I am going to have to accept.