Biting & Bruising my sons!!!

[Chris & Boys]

Fozzy Bear is now almost 7 months old. When he wants to play with Boomer, he grabs him at the base of the tail or by the ears and tugs. Unfortunately, when he wants to play with my sons, he grabs at thier arms and legs, mostly. Well, his jaw is so strong that he is leaving bruises and scratches on thier arms. I thought he would be over this mouthing thing by now. I am worried that if this continues, I will have a serious problem on my hands. He knows what "no biting" means, but when he wants to play he just won't quit. He will stop but just bite again and again. I am wondering if a electric training collar will help? I need quick solutions, this is getting totally out of control.

[Chris & Boys]

Thanks Adina I plan to continue with training in August. We already are at baseball 4-6 nites a week til the end of July. Don't apologize for being long winded, you are very detailed which is so beneficial. I will try review your advice with the boys this evening. Thank you so much for the GREAT advice.

[Kyoko]

Hi, Chris. I agree with Adina on this one.
I am no expert, and I feel like we are going through with these issues together since our puppies are about the same age....
Charlie and I are back in further obedience class now, and I like this trainer. She uses positive reinforcement only, and I like her philosophy. As Charlie got older( 6 month now), different behavior developed, like wanting to chase cars, hating to get her ears done, resourse guarding at the dog park,etc...
I am working and hoping to develop strong & automatic responce when certain commends are given.
This trainer said that it takes 500 experiences for the behavior to stick. So, it may take awhile for Fozzy to sit / down or whatever you prefer him to do while he is with boys, but I am sure he will learn!!
The trainer also said to teach what you want them to do, instead of what you don't want them to do. So, rather than "No Bite", tell him what you want him to do, like "Leave It" or something.
I walk around with the treat bag when we are out. Everytime when a car comes by, I say "Car" and have her sit, give her a treat. It's working, and she is learning to sit on the side of the street when I say "Car" now. Fozzy can learn to "Off" or "Leave it" soon, too.

[Chris & Boys]

Yes, I agree. Fozzy does know "leave it". He just can't leave it long enough. I have to work on the "stay" command. Thanks for your help Kyoko!

[2acchsod6inx3]

Hi, we have had similar issues. The trainer told us to have the kids stand like a statue and make a sound like ehh ehhh that means no. You should be nearby to pull the dog down so he understands. If the kids bat with their arms or get down low, the dog thinks they want to play. This is not fool-proof. If our dog is excited, (we just got home, its morning and he wants to play), I try to run interference until he is calm. Plus the kids need to be told over and and over how to respond and not to get the dog riled up.

[Chris & Boys]

Did the trainer tell you to not leave the dog unsupervised with the boys? Or to have him tethered whenever he is not crated?

[Lynne B]

Any puppy that jumps on people needs to be tethered until it learns otherwise. If the puppy is allowed the run of the house, turning your back won't do much good as the puppy will jump on your back; but I think puppies earn freedom, it's not a 'right'. You can get a 10-12 foot lead (or make one) and hook it around a door hinge, or under a sofa leg- or even with an eyehook screwed into the baseboard. That gives the puppy adequate freedom but allows you to do what i suggested with the jumping & nipping- turn around cross your arms walk OUT of reach of the puppy. An accompanying noise (eh-eh) is good, as is a shrill yelp when puppy does mouth you.

All you are trying to do is teach the puppy that the ONLY time anyone in the house will pay attention to it is when it is calm, not jumping or biting. It's not rocket science, and it mimics the way that dogs deal with other obnoxious dogs.

[Chris & Boys]

We took training classes with him when eh was 14 weeks old. I mentioned before we are taking more classes again in August. I am not waiting until he is older, we are actively training him.

[Chris & Boys]

Hi Jane,

We did begin to isolate him with this behavior this morning. We will try the toy trick. I am willing to try just any reasonable tactic. Thanks,

[Joy Originator of GiantSchnoodles]

I am reposting this in the right place.
Reply by Joy Originator of GiantSchnoodles 1 second ago
Delete
Hello Chris, YOu have asked for feedback & I'm going to give it to you straight although it may be hard to hear. I am a breeder & trainer & a grandmother. What I am seeing and reading is child abuse & is ultimately signing your dog's death warrant. There is far more here than I or anybody could possibly address on line. You must get some training for yourself immediately. I am going to suggest that you contact www.clickertraining.com and find a trainer in your area from their web site. This needs to be a priority. Your child is being abused and your ideas are guaranteed to create a dog who ultimately will be labeled as dangerous & be put down. What is happening is very dangerous. I will suggest a book . That's not going to be enough but it might give you some understanding of the dog culture. Get Leader of the Pack as well as the other books that have been recommended on this forum. Using the piece meal advice given here is not going to be helpful as you need much more help than can be given here as well intentioned & correct as it may be. It does not begin to cover the situation. This is DANGEROUS. Agression toward your dog such as hitting or an electric collar will cause your dog to be aggressive. This is the wrong approach for this breed of dog. Ceaser Millan's approach is the wrong approach for this breed of dog. Tamar Geller is probably the right approach but may be too late. This is a very intelligent breed that needs to be communicated with. You cannot bash this breed into submssion. At this time I recommend that you separate your children from the dog until you have some sessions and advice from a positive reinforcement trainer which I why I am suggesting that you get a trainer from www.clickertraining.com. I recommend that training advice from amateur trainers be closed on this thread. I wish you luck & hope you will update us when you have gotten professional help from a professional positive trainer. Puppy love from Joy & furry folk
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[Chris & Boys]

He is playing. He is not breaking skin. He is not trying to bite them, that is why I frequently say grab/bite. He is not being aggessive, he is trying to play. He is not aggressive with other dogs. He is not aggressive with the kids, he is trying to get them to play with him. Maybe I was not clear enough.

My kids do attend training with me and FB.

I think the best advice I got is to work on his "stay"

[Joy Originator of GiantSchnoodles]

HI Chris, This is not acceptable "playing". If your trainer has seen this & doesn't see it as dangerous, you need a new trainer. It doesn't matter if his intention is to be agressive, the result is he is injuring your children. This is child abuse. To allow this "playing" to continue on any level will become agression & ultimately will cause your dog to be put down as soon as he "plays" with someone else's child. If I cannot get you to understand anything else, put it into dollars & cents. You are putting yourself in a place of liability. If your dog did that to my child or grandchild, I would sue you for everything you own. If you own a house, you would lose it. If you own a car you will lose it. I used to be a social worker for child welfare. I would remove your children from your home. I am saying this out of caring. You and your children are in danger. I am asking you take immediate action. "Trying" won't work. You need to have success & you need it now. It isn't that difficult for a professional positive trainer. Whatever that costs is going to be cheaper than what is going to happen if you don't hire one tomorrow. You cannot do this by yourself no matter how many books your read or how much advice you get on line. I hope you follow through Puppy love from Joy & furry folk

[Phoebe's Mom]

OMG your poor boys, but I know it so well. Phoebe does this to my oldest and the weirdest (saddest, craziest, you fill in the right adjective for this one!) thing is that she is still doing it WITH the cone on!!! If he comes into the room and stops to pet her behind the ears, she will try to grab at him with her mouth. She will not do it with any of my other children--my husband often comments that Phoebe 'owns' him. What we have started to do is that, as soon as she does it, HE puts her in her ex-pen and says NO BITE. I'll keep you posted on whether or not it is working for us. One would think that the pain meds for the spay and the cone might be deterents but she is a feisty little girl! I hope that your boys are okay and that Fozzy minds his manners when wanting to play! Phoebe better get well soon so that she and Fozzy can get some energy out the right way!!!