What is an authentic Australian Labradoodle?

[Audrey Goldman]

My one year old Archie is from HudsonDoodles in New York, listed as a (registered?) breeder of Australian Labradoodles AL). I verified this breeder was legit with Rutland Manor and Archie's birth certificate lists him as a 5th generation Australian Labradoode. Archie is my first dog and I adore him yet I am also curious as the original characteristics I requested from the breeder are not what Archie has grown into. He is much bigger than I thought he would be, 50 lbs instead of 35, his coat has changed from a deep chocolate to a light latte color and his coat is curly instead of wavy. Is this common when getting an Australian Labradoodle even when thier parentage goes back 5 generations?
At what point with authentic AL (and a very expensive one I might add) do you know what your adult dog will look like. Loving my sweet Archie. Audrey in CA

[Linda, Webber and Seda]

Rutland Manor would probably not register the above mentioned doodles as Australian (even though you see this designation on the web sites and the dogs are ALAA approved). They have their own standard. See: http://www.australianlabradoodlefoundationalliance.com/ . The dogs they certify as Authentic Australian Labradoodles come from Tegan Park and Rutland Manor dogs. Changes in the "rules" when breeders started popping up all over the United States caused Rutland Manor to come up with ALFA.

[1i86r4x3nftnw]

I have a labradoodle she is 3rd generation and she was a chocolate but she is now a parchment colour and has curly wool very much like a poodle only thing different is her face it is more square thyan a poodle and I also have a black fleece but she is changing as well to a phantom colour but she still is fleece jazz is 4 th generation

[Adina P]

I'm not an ALD breeder nor do I own one. But as much as ALD's are farther along in their progression to breed status (and by that I just mean a dog that breeds true to type over and over) they are still not a pure breed. 5 generations isn't anywhere near the length of time it takes for a breed to be expected to be a 'breed' that comes out the same every time. And as others have said sometimes even a pure breed will throw some oddities out there...this is FAR more common and expected with a dog that is not yet a pure breed.

[Ginny Nightingale]

I was laughing as i read the part about height and weight--and leggy dogs who are "light"--because i have a F1LD dog with really short legs (no counter surfing!) but the body of a full grown lab! She wieghs 36 pounds and is 15 inches at the shoulder. So, she is a mini-medium, but i can hardly lift her since the weight is all in the middle --it's a bit like lifting a bowling ball. I have better luck lifting my leggy 45 pound ALD. So, even weight can be misleading!!

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Clancy is our rescue and surely NOT an ALD but he, like yours, Ginny, has the body of a full retriever and the legs of a short dog.

[Patti]

This is the breed standard from Tegan.

 

http://labradoodleasd.com/TEGAN-BREED%20STANDARD.htm

[Carol Brand]

Interesting.  

The Tegan standard reads:

Height to length ratio should be as ten is to twelve, being slightly longer in leg than deep in body....

 

The Rutland Manor standard reads:

Slightly taller than long, on a ratio as twelve is to ten....

 

Those are profoundly different proportions.   

[1xar0x2rcx0li]

Especially interesting since a breed ratio closer to 1 is correlated with a reduced incidence of Hip Dysplasia in larger breeds.

[Carol Brand]

Reference?

[1xar0x2rcx0li]

I researched this a while ago. There are a great deal of papers on the veterinary literature on HD.

A quick coffe break search found one to start with:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090023309004432

A similar one using doggie BMI, which if you get shorter in length but not lighter in weight, and more compact you BMI goes up:http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/ajvr.69.3.330?url_ver=...

[Carol Brand]

Thanks those were interesting.  I'm not sure that I would run out to hang my hat on the 1st study.  It looked at OFA data and then measured pictures of BIS winners of different breeds and then found a correlation.  It did not measure the dogs themselves and then look at their hips.  It also did not follow the progeny of these dogs vs. dogs who tended to have proportions closer to 1.   The second study looked at body mass, i.e. dogs who were heavy for their relative height.

 

I looked at a list of breeds who have a high and low percentage of HD and then I looked at their written standard to see if there was a correlation.  I'm not sure I saw one.

Breeds with high percentage of HD and their ideal proportions according to the standard:

(Information for AKC web site and Cornell Vet College)

Bernese Mountain Dog (appearing square,  slightly longer than tall)

Boxer (square)

Brittany Spaniel (square, any hint of being long is penalized)

Chesapeake Bay Retriever (Height slightly less than the body length)

English Springer Spaniel (length of the body is slightly greater than the height)

Golden Retriever (Length slightly greater than height ratio of 12:11)

German Shepherd Dogs (longer than tall, with the most desirable proportion as 10 to 8½)

Labrador Retriever (length is equal to or slightly longer than height)

Standard Poodle (square)

Rottweiler (height to length being 9 to 10)

 

Breeds with low incidence of HD

Borzoi (no proportion given.... dogs seem slightly longer than tall

Doberman Pinscher  (square)

Great Dane (square)

Greyhound (no proportion given.... dogs do seem slightly longer than tall)

Irish Wolfhound (no clearly stated proportions but faults include  too short in body)

Siberian Husky (slightly longer than the height)

 

I think that HD in a breed has more to do with the gene for it being passed down.  You will notice that in breeds with low HD that 3 are coursing breeds and one is a serious draft breed.  I think HD is not often seen in these breeds because historically if a dog could not run, it was put down and kept out of the breeding pool.

 

Anyway... back to the original issue.  I don't think ALDs have finished being standardized and there is still a lot of variation out there in type.  As far as becoming an AKC approved breed.... well the ALD has a long way to go and a number of hurdles that are going to be hard to clear.  

 

 

 

 

[Lynda Kamrath]

Interesting reading.  We got our ALD from a breeder in Texas and he has papers for six generations of ALDs from Tegan and Rutlands.  I think that they want the ALDs to be from these breeders originally, but breeders here do many variations of breeding.  It is all okay as long as the experimenting is done by breeders and testing is completed on the dogs.  Yes, size, color, and hair types may vary, but that is part of learning to love your dog.  You can't order just the characteristics you would like in your children, so why want to do that with your dog.  Enjoy them.  ALDs are generally smaller than the "normal" labradoodles and goldendoodles, but they also come in many sizes, colors, and hair types.