Communicating OR Barking?

[Sessa]

I'm hoping I can present this in such a way as to spark a lively discussion!!
(pun intended! LOL!) and, I'm hoping everyone will chime in with their experiences and tolerance levels regarding barking---keeping in mind, that this is certainly a VERY subjective topic with no right or wrong answers. ;)

Here we go:

When is barking communicating?
and, vice versa,
When is barking just barking?

Or...put in another way,

When is it OKAY for your doodle to bark?
and vice versa,
When is NOT OKAY for your doodle to bark?
____________________________________

I'll go first:

Barking is something that I believe is worked on EVERY day, just like the basic building blocks of training, such as sit, down, stay, etc....

Barking is a major form of communication that I would not want to stifle in my dog,
although, training limitations of the when, why, and how much is very necessary.

I recognize that I have a doodle that is particularly vocal--by nature...thus, I've had to work hard on training with her because in the big picture of things, I would never want to "mute" her.

For example, I like the fact that my doodle alerts me to things/occurrences that I may otherwise miss or those things that she is more finely attuned to---i.e. hearing something, smelling something, alerting me of something, etc...
I also like the fact that I can recognize that my dog has MANY different types of barks--play barks, fear barks, excited barks, cooing growls, and so on....

HOWEVER, yes big HOWEVER,
I do not tolerate being barked AT (no way, no where, by no dog--I turn my back and walk away every time),
I do not tolerate barking coupled with escalating energy levels (this moves them further away from paying attention to ME!),
I do not tolerate barking AT other people (most of the time ;) ),
I do not tolerate unbridled barking in the backyard or at the fence line (one, at most, two barks, to acknowledge someone on the other side of the fence is fine but no more than that!).

Because I have limitations, I have had to really focus on the "bark" on command versus "quiet" and "hushhhhh" (with a finger over my lips)....it is possible to distinguish between these two, it just takes time and patience..I have not had to as of yet, nor do I plan on in the future, resort to remote collars...
..
..did I mention that I work on this every day?!?!!!!! LOL! ;) ;)

THANKS to those, in advance, who decide to share!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, since you're the one who taught me how to stop the "racing the fence-line acting like Cujo every time someone walks past the yard" kind of barking, I'll be happy to share, lol.
I like that he barks to tell me someone's at the door or in the front yard. He never over-does it. I like it that he would bark if there was a problem, like when my foster puppy was sick in the middle of the night; I think he would bark like a madman if someone was trying to get into the house. That's my idea of good barking, or I guess, "communicative" barking. He never, ever barks at me, even playing. He will stare or push at you to get attention, but never says "hey play with me!" I wouldn't mind a single short bark to get my attention, but Jack is not vocal in that way at all. Maybe this is something that we need to work on in the distant future, getting him to be more vocal?
We have a corner lot, and the sidewalk that runs past the sideyard is much traveled by pedestrian traffic. I hate it when I'm out walking Jack and someone else's dog runs along the fence barking, so I don't want him doing it to anyone else. Thanks to your advice about "reclaiming" the fence & the yard, I've been successful in ending that. I also don't like when he barks at someone who is walking on the opposite side of the street when he's inside the house looking out the front windows. But it's usually very brief, so I haven't addressed that yet, other than "hush!" The protective, territorial barking is what I can't stand.
The worst of that kind of barking for me is accompanied by lunging and berserk-o behavior when we are out walking and he sees a strange dog. (I think this is what you called escalating energy levels.) This has been an issue for awhile, and I'm finally getting a handle on it. For us, the key is getting and keeping his attention on me before the excitement begins. Having tasted success in this area, I am feeling much more confident about my ability to control his behavior, and I think he knows I am more confident about it. It's like now that I've decided that I'm in charge, he thinks so, too. This is one thing I also work on every day.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I forgot; Jack did bark at me recently...he had gone into the dog park with my daughter, and I was still in the car. He stood at the gate and barked at me like "C'mon, hurry up, I want to play!" That was good barking, too, he didn't want to start having fun without me!

[Sessa]

Excellent news, Karen!
I'm so glad to hear that walking the fence line has aided in re-establishing the range of "your" territory! LOL! Funny, how simple, and powerful, silent body language can be--versus my YELLING! LOL!
(As I train Mija, I train myself--don't yell Sessa, don't yell! HAHAHA!)
And, I totally agree with your key--keeping attention on us BEFORE/DURING the excitement...that's why I can't yell---yelling would only signal that I'm excited too! LOL!
THANKS for the GREAT reply!

[Megan]

So how do I reclaim by backyard? We have a walking trail...and you guessed it, he loves to race back and forth..he doesn't always bark..but would love for him to sit and be nice! :)

[Sessa]

Reclaiming spaces is a physical marker for the dog---YOU are the marker, lol, but better yet, the point is that by inhabiting a space more with your body you signal to your dog the ownership over that space....if he is running freely up and down the walking trail, in his mind, he owns it...however, I'll bet that if you go and simply stand in the path--especially when he is going at it--it will stop him in his tracks...at least, ideally. LOL!....

The point that I was sharing with Karen was that I regularly "walk the perimeter" of my property...I have built gravel pathways around my gardens and around the perimeter of the yard to encourage my doodle to use them...however, I also quickly realized that I made it easier for her to "patrol" the yard for us...sooo, I walk the perimeter and show her that I am active in the area and "own" it as much as I do the inside of the house...if she is running around like a crazy lady, I'll quietly go and begin my round of walking, sometimes I'll spread out my arms and walk directly at her, other times I'll just stop mid-track and stand....the more time I spend on the paths while she is out in the yard, the less likely she is to patrol and bark along the perimeter in an unbridled fashion.

GOOD LUCK!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

This worked almost immediately for me; it's like magic! As soon as I started walking the perimeter of the yard, Jack became my follower instead of racing off to the fence on "patrol". The first time I went to his usual barking place on the street side of the yard, and put both my hands on top of the fence, it stopped him cold. He doesn't even try to run along there anymore. He almost never runs at the fence when I'm in the yard, and just a step in his direction will make him move back from it. Vanessa, you're a genius!

[Megan]

Awesome..thanks!!! :)

[Adrianne Matzkin]

I agree with both you and Karen. Samantha lets us know when someone is out in the street but has been barking lately EVERYTIME she hears someone out front (when we are in the backyard). I can't really say if it is more since Mickey has been here or not but it does seem to be more than usual. If I can get her attention by calling her name, she quiets down immediately. If I can't or she is already in the 'zone' I have to get up to correct her. After she stops barking I tell her 'good girl'. I hope I am not confusing her with that - stop but good girl after she does.
Mickey follows Samantha's every move so he is learning to run to the side gate to 'check it out' also.
Rarely does Samantha bark 'at me'. I do get the low whine/bark when I ignore her dropping her ball in my lap so that I do play with her but if she gets fresh with a bark bark I totally ignore her and bring the ball into the house. THAT she understands.
I taught Samantha to 'speak' on command with both an indoor and outdoor voice so I could teach to be quiet when necessary. She learned with verbal and hand signal to speak.
Once school opens again in September we will continue on 'watching but not barking' when the kids walk past the house to school That is just barking to be annoying and it is!
It is a never ending work in progress.
But I just adore her.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You know, now I'm re-reading this, and I'm thinking, What's the difference between barking because a burglar is breaking into the house, and barking because someone comes to the door to deliver a pizza? Both are protective, and territiorial. Except that in one case, (burglar), you aren't aware of the activity or aren't home, and in the other case, you are. So how do you teach a dog that when you are there, you will take care of things, but when you aren't, it's okay for him to be the protector?

[Adrianne Matzkin]

When you go to the door to pay for your pizza, you tell JD that he is a good boy but now is the time to be quiet and I will take over (unless he is willing to pay for it) That is why we tell Samantha that she is to be quiet and when she is she gets the 'good girl'. I want her to bark to let me know she hears something but when we go to investigate she must stop and let us be in charge.

When you aren't home... if a tree fell in the forest,....

[Sessa]

You know, what a good point...
why is that doodles never pay up when the pizza man comes?
LOL!

I agree--the difference remains with your lead/presence...you are always in charge, all the time and anywhere...therefore, you call the shots as to proper responses.

When not home...well...unless the rest of the trees in the forest, i.e your neighbors, don't mind, then so be it....my only problem with that is those occasions tip the experience scales in the favor of the dog barking at anything or anytime....I'd like to hope, and believe, that I've trained my doodle well enough to not continually bark at stuff when alone.

[Tamara & Giada]

I don't want to jinx myself, but my doodle never barks.............is something wrong with her??