Crate Training

[cheryl & oliver]

ok, guys, we are having a very bad time with Ollie at night. I walk him around 11-11:30 pm, and then put him in his crate for the night. HE does not sleep thru the night...He gets up somewhere around 5 am,or before and barks and carries on. We have taken him out and he will pee and poop, and then we put him back, and he is quiet for maybe a few minutes and it starts all over again...This is really becomming a major problem. I have taken away water after dinner, he is walked several times at night before bed. He usually seems to fall asleep around 10 PM, and I let him sleep until 11-11:30 and the wake him and walk him, and put him into his crate...Do u think we should just let him carry on,?...He can do this for what seems like forever, and then quiet for a few minutes and as I say he starts all over again...Both DH and I are exhausted with this to say the least. I have a wonderful neighbor next door that tells me she hears him, but not to worry, she knows we are training him, and she gets up anyway, not because of him....Any help would be appreciated....or ideas? or did any of u have this with your dogs?..He is going to be 4 mos old Aug. 3rd. He is walked often during the day too, Maybe we are walking him too much?.....Thanks, Cheryl

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

We used a inexpensive cat carrier as a small crate at night. I placed it on a chair next to our bed so he could hear, smell, and see us at night.
Another problem we had was he would breathe so hard he became thirsty and would only want to get up and drink. So the next hour he would want to get up and pee. Vicious cycle. We also placed a fan softly blowing near the carrier. It kept him cool. Good Luck and I hope you get some sleep soon.

[cheryl & oliver]

He is too big now for one of those cat carriers, he won't fit in, lol, Our house is central air conditioned, and the room he is in also has a ceiling fan going, My house in the summer is between 72- & 74 degrees at all times...So he is not hot and panting...

[Betsy D.]

I have a puppy who will be 4 months in a couple of weeks. I don't have her in my room because any noises that the kids make or I make, if and when the kids need me in the middle of the night, she wakes up and then of course, has to go out.

I know you said that Ollie gets walks during the day, but we found that if Cimmy wasn't exhausted,very long walks or hard play with other dogs, she would wake up to go out around 3:30. Like you, I put her back in the crate and leave her. For awhile I can hear her moving around in the crate, but she does settle down. Sometimes she barks, so I have to be careful that she has pooped because this is what she does during the day to indicate that she needs to poop. If she pooped when i walked her, then I ignore her. if not, than I wait to see if she settles down before I respond.

I don't know if you have had children, but one of the sayings is that more sleep, begets more sleep. Meaning that if your child goes to sleep early than they will sleep later. I have found this with my children and my pup. I was walking Cimmy for the last time around 11:30. She would wake up in the middle of the night. I have found that she is out for the night about 10 to 10;30. if I walk her then, and put her in her crate, she tends to sleep until 7:30ish. It is wonderful!!!! If only the kids were more consistant with sleeping late! Good luck. I hope you are sleeping more soon.

[cheryl & oliver]

Hi Betsy, thanks for the reply. I too have had children,and I did think about putting him in to sleep earlier, he is usually sleeping on the floor near me, whether I am on the computer or elsewhere, he is sound asleep by 10 P.M., I am waking him up to put him to sleep and walking him at 11-11:30...I think I am going to try putting him to sleep about 10 and see what happens...thanks for the idea..Cheryl

[Kim]

I had always (from day 2 at 9 weeks) put Allie in her crate, in the living room around 10pm, and she always slept until around 7. I guess I was just extremely lucky (in the beginning). I always leave a night light on for her. I think that covering her crate would scare her... but all dogs are different. If you have been covering it, try uncovering it.

[cheryl & oliver]

Kim, I don't cover his crate because it is dark in that room, but there is a nightlite in the room next to him that is very low lite. He can see the glow from it, but it is not bright enough to wake him or disturb his sleep. I think he would be terrified if I covered his crate...All I know is I am at my wits end and he was not a good boy today...He has peed in the house twice and pooped once!!!...Even though I have walked him as usual...I just don't understand why he won't tell us when he has to go out...I watch and see him sniffing around and out he goes, he is praised and treated when he goes, but he just doesn't tell us...Maybe it is his age...Now I did give him more water today, he kept going to his water bowl and looking at me, so sadly...So I have given him more to drink today....AND he was up at 5 am, barking, I walked him, he didn't make, I put him back and 15 min later he was carrying on so hubby walked him and he peed and pooped, and then put him back, tand he was up for the day 20 min. later, maybe I need to get a trainor to get a handle this? I really can't afford to pay a lot for this, but lets see what I can find out...Anyone know of a good trainor in the West Palm Beach Fl area that is reasonable?...

[Adina P]

Go to http://www.APDT.com to find a trainer near you.
I don't think you need to get a trainer for potty training...some pups just take a little while longer than others. I always forget how old everybody's puppy is...what's his age again? Rosco didn't give signs of having to go for a long time..and then ONLY after he mastered ringing the bells to tell us he had to go. He peed probably 90% of the time I took him out (and I did so incredibly often) and yet still peed in the house. He was just young, distracted, and oblivious. There wasn't anything wrong with him. I think he preferred to pee outside, but when the need arose he had no qualms about relieving himself. I wouldn't correct a pup under 4 months, but if he's older than that and you CATCH him in the act...interrupt him as fast as you can with a LOUD (but not angry or intimidating...more just STARTLING) "NO ... OUTSIDE" or whatever words you want to use and then RUSH him outdoors to finish.

Also some pups take a couple pees to fully empty. First pee might be just barely relieving their bladder (before they are distracted by a leaf moving) and then the second pee really empties. It seemed to be true with Rosco, maybe that's the case with your pup too.

When you said you walked him (above) and then he still peed and pooped...had he peed AND pooped on his walk? If not, if he does not pee and he doesn't poo when he normally would, then I would crate him upon returning and then try again for a potty in the backyard. It took me awhile, but eventually I figured out Rosco's poo schedule and knew to take him out for that and wait longer during the normal times he had to poo. Perhaps writing down the times he poops (in or out) might start to show you a pattern.

Pee, on the other hand, was totally random. I just had to take him out every 15-20 minutes (if he was out of his crate that is) for a very very long time. Have you started bell training him? I love that my dogs ring bells to go potty, but I wouldn't trust him to tell you just yet. Just make a habit of helping him ring the bells each time he goes out. But YOU be the judge of when it's time to go out until he's gone a few weeks without accidents. By that I mean don't expect him to announce it, instead take the lead and take him out at set intervals, but DO take him out ANYTIME he does ring the bells (on leash) even if you think or know he can't possibly need to go.

As to the crying in the crate thing...I don't know. If there is anyway to squeeze his crate into your room (move furniture, etc) that's what I would do, but that may not be the solution for you. Sounds like he's just lonely and wants what he wants. You don't want to give in, but if you can keep him near you that might soothe him and keep you sane in the meantime until he matures and gets more comfy in his crate.

[cheryl & oliver]

Thank you Adina for your wise words, lol, He will be 4 mos. on Wed. and I have to keep remembering that he is still a baby, even if he doesn't look like one, lol....Big as he is, his mind and bladder are that of a baby. I do take him out every 20 min, or more. I have started the bell training too, sometimes he will nudge them, but only if we are on the way out the door, otherwise he ignores them, and sometimes he won't hit them with his nose either. I have caught him in the act of peeing and grabbed him and put him out to finish, with a strong no, outside for pee...He knows what I am talking about, he looks me straight in the eye, and then lowers his eyes...I am just happy to hear that I am not the only one with a problem of housebreaking..Like u said he will in time learn, just so frustrating. I can time his Poo schedule, it was my husband that missed the time this am, not me, lol, and I know his looks and sniffing so I know when to take him out...With the crate problem, we will have to play that by ear, and see if the problem gets better. I am going to take him out at 10 instead of 11, when he is still up, I have been waking him to walk him and crate him, so we will try and see if that might work...Betsy did that and her doodle started sleeping much better, so tonight we will try that...Thanks for all the great ideas, and concerns, this is such a great board...

[cheryl & oliver]

oops Adina, how old was he when u really felt he was getting the message to tell you when he needed to go out?...And when did the accidnets stop????

[Adina P]

Oh you don't want to know about Rosco! LOL. He was a late bloomer when it came to house training. If I remember correctly (it all becomes a blur later!) at about 7 months I was on my laptop in the living room and diagonally behind me I suddenly heard Rosco PEEING on the dining room floor! It took me probably a second or two to get over the shock and yell out some sound to please make it STOP! It was my fault to a degree because the gate between the living room and kitchen was closed so he could NOT have gone to ring his bell and well...there he was with a full bladder...and he went. Ugh I was so mad at him and at me. What is hilariously ironic is that while I was on the lap top I was GIVING ADVICE to someone ABOUT house training...ROFL. Sheesh!

The next accident was at 10 months and also my fault. When our back door is wide open it blocks the bells. One day I had the back door WIDE open and the screen door shut. What do I find near the back door but a yellow puddle! Again...my fault because he could not REACH the bell to ring it and he had to go so he went...but at least he got close!

Since then he NEVER fails to ring and let us know. He's also gotten more vocal and he will bark if the gate is closed. He also will bark in the middle of the night to let us know (he sleeps in our room with our other 3 dogs...it takes work in the middle of the night to not step on any of them!

He's had a number of pee-in-the house incidents after that, well into adulthood, WHEN (and only when) we leave him alone for 2+ hours in the evening with a full water bowl. He has a tendency save all his drinking for after supper...at which time he guzzles and guzzles and guzzles and then has to go out frequently (we can't even watch a sitcom all the way through!) to relieve himself. So we've learned that if we go out after supper...all water is taken up until we return and that prevents it completely.

What Karen and Sessa mentioned about bell training is important to note. Don't RELY on him yet. Just keep help him ring them before he goes out...but don't expect him to be 'on it' yet.