Twinkies and Dog Training

[Adina P]

You've probably heard that you can't spot trim your body, right? If you have 'problem thighs' or flabby abs...you can't just work on those by themselves ignoring the rest of your body. It doesn't work. You won't get great results if you do crunches while munching on Twinkies. You can't trim body fat the way you trim fat off a steak. It takes an overall plan of healthy eating and exercise.

I think it's similar with dog training. Most of us owners have dogs that are "perfect"... except for this or that bad habit, annoying behavior, random refusal to obey. So we look for ways to "spot fix" problems like:

--jumping on people
--rushing out the door
--pulling on leash

But I am convinced that just like one needs an overall plan of healthy eating and exercise to get at the root of flabby spots...you will do much better, overall, to work toward solid obedience on the basics when you train your dog.

Dogs that can sit, down, stay, come, heel, to a high level of reliability around just about any distraction...can NOT jump on people when they visit you, they cannot run out the front door willy nilly and they won't be pulling you down the street or lunging to say hello to passerby. Why?

Because you have the antidotes at your disposal:

-Sit-Stay or Down-Stay to keep their paws off guests (and has a myriad of other uses)
-Sit-Stay when you open the door prevents running out the front door.
-Fluffy COME! leads to a dog putting on the breaks, spinning around and marching back inside before he reaches the street.
-Rosco HEEL! leads to a dog that walks politely next to you regardless of other fun things going on.

And so on...

So I believe that most owners would do MUCH better in fixing problems if their goal of reaching a high level of obedience reliability trumped "spot fixing" problems, "socialization" at the dog park, teaching tricks, and other activities that only allow a dog to get better at not-responding to commands.

I'm NOT saying all dog owners should aim for/want a high level of reliability...only that they'd get better handle on problem areas if they aimed for that rather than focusing on the problems themselves.

[Kate and Maci]

Adina, your timing is very appropriate. Miss Maci is a pretty obedient dog but she IS a jumper. But what I have noticed is when we are on our morning walks when we encounter a fellow walker/biker, etc., I will put her in a sit and stay/wait while the person passes us. Unfortunately, if it is someone she knows, she loses all control and cannot keep her butt on the ground. Total stranger can walk by, say hello to her and nothing but maybe a wagging of the tail. Got any advice :)

[Adina P]

I don't have training advice because you and I use different methods of training so what I do would be useless for you as far as specifics. But in general terms I think it's just a matter of working the sit-stay, the heel, the down-stay more and especially adding in the VERY parts she finds difficult.

Thule is an enthusiastic greeter/jumper with anyone...so as I have time (which isn't as much as I want) I have been taking her out and working on her obedience to heel and sit-stay. I took her to our work picnic last night and we heeled all around...gradually working our way closer to people. I had to physically block Thule from people who were getting too close to her too fast. She did get corrections, but not many and was able to sit nicely by my side while I spoke with co-workers. This is NOT something she can do if I'm casual about things. I HAVE to be ready to praise/correct in a split second. If I were out for a walk and then stopped to talk to someone and didn't use that as a training opportunity she'd practice the unwanted behavior. So you can't allow those moments if possible. I can't just say "sit" and then ignore whether she sits or not.

I would give her a break from holding the stay by heeling her away (stay is VERY hard for her and it's not fair to push her past her limits) and then returning for a repeat. Eventually, my coworker patted her on the head but Thule did not budge. YAY! She did very well, but still needs more practice until I am positive she can handle it off and on leash. And I have to do it when guests come rather than let things slide.

So yeah...the specifics for your method I can't help you with (treats, timing, etc) but my best amateur advice is just to work her more in those areas...up the ante too so she's challenged with the very things she has trouble with but in increments so she has more success than failure.

[Adina P]

Do you always do sit-wait or sit-stay as people pass? Why not 'heel'? I prefer heel as there is no reason to stop except as sit-stay practice. But would be good to challenge her heel too.

[Adina P]

Oooooh also practice it gradually with you at a greater and greater distance from Maci. So you can be 15 feet away, for example, and a known person can approach Miss Maci while in a sit stay and she still would stay--something to aim for!

[Adrianne Matzkin]

This is no debate in my eyes. I detest humans being walked down the street by any dog, any size, any breed. Walking nicely on a leash is basic obedience. If that cannot be done, then the chances that a dog is obedient in any other aspect in their lives are nill.
I am guilty of not being diligent with my training with Samantha. She is alwyas so good that I got lazy. Since Mickey and Charli came into our lives, I realize I have a couple of areas I need to fix. My laziness may put Samantha into a dangerous situation - like not walking next to me when taking a walk. She seems to meander a couple of feet away from me and that puts her closer to the speed demons that come down my street.
I do not work well by myself - I need to 'report' to someone to make sure I work hard -Puppy classes, and now Debbie. To 'fix' my faults, I am having Debbie Kaikaka (DK member and trainer) come to work with the 3 of us together. I need to learn to walk both together before Charli gets any older as well as other issues working with 2 doodles as well as some issues with Samantha. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to have a private trainer (especially one that knows us) but finding someone to help is imperative if you have faults.

[Adina P]

I want to add that I do not believe it's 'lack of socialization' that leads dogs to act poorly in public, pull on leash, etc. A dog can grow up in doggy daycare and have met hundreds of people and still do naughty things in public. Only training fixes behavior not repeated exposure. Socialization is for feeling safe and accepting diff people and environments. It doesn't perform behavior miracles.

[GBK]

I do not believe it's 'lack of socialization' that leads dogs to act poorly in public, pull on leash, etc.

I agree with this statement! During our obedience classes on monday nights we all have to wait our turn to go through the course. This means all dogs are laying or sitting, very close to one another to be the next one up.

The dogs learn this is NOT play time but occasionally roll around and try to entice the next door pup to play (KONA!) It really amazes me how fast they learn that class time is no nonsense and play time is only when we say so. Our trainer also does sit stay and down stay excersises where the dogs are almost touching and owners are out of site or at least 10 feet away for 5 to 10 minutes. One dog will pop up here and there, but for the most part everyone stays put!

[F, Calla & Luca]

I agree with everything you said, Adina. But I was the child who quit piano lesson because I didn't want to practice. I could say I don't have the time etc. but basically I don't have the patience and I'll have to work more on that. Luckily my doodles are inherently good dogs but they definitely could be better trained!

[Adina P]

I couldn't stick to piano either. I think I took about 2 months of lessons or so...practice sucks!

And I don't fault anyone for choosing not to put in the work. It's all a matter of perspective and what each person wants/needs from their dog. As much as I WANT/NEED a dog to walk politely by my side if I am to take it places, it's what *I* want. It's not required. As long as a dog isn't a danger to others (including oneself if the dog can pull you to the ground chasing a squirrel) or himself...problems are only in the eye of the beholder.

It's when people complain about problems that I think they need to really decide "How important is it for me to fix this problem?" IF it is very important, then basic obedience needs to be top priority: above going on casual walks with no training plan, above dog park visits, above teaching tricks, above play dates with other dogs, etc. Otherwise those other things swallow up the time that could be used for training and sometimes actually counteract training because the dog is put into a situation in which it is not ready to succeed and gets reinforced for disobedience.

For me my excuse tends to be "I don't have anyone to heeeeelp me :-( " Because at some point I need the help of others to role play for me and create those scenarios in which each of my dogs needs more work. But I can't ask my friends to be 'on call' for training daily and it sure takes a daily effort of progressively more difficult work to improve a dog's training. I saw it when I was consistently working Rosco...he just got better and better at all his commands.

A trainer I respect once said something to this effect: "I'd rather enjoy my life with a trained dog, then spend my life training my dog." Unfortunately I'm not YET skilled enough to have the fully trained dog...but eventually =)

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

I like the excuse that my dogs are mental! (kidding). My dogless friend who watches TLC always likes to give me advice. She says things like "you gotta pin her, lay ontop of her, bite her and then piss on her" (Ya she's a funny one) Can you mentally picture me actually doing that? "Abby Sit! Abby Stay" then when she runs away I tackle her to the ground coming up with a mouthful of fur and my panties around my ankles and pee on my shoes!

In reality I walk along pleasantly and calmly while picturing this in my head like a bad Saturday Night Live Cesar Milan parody.

In all seriousness though in the past I have succeeded well in the "stay" with 1 dog. The other couldnt hold it. I think it is the dog more than the methods.