Kennel all day?

[Nancy Sunderland]

Hi, I have a topic to bring up that I'm afraid might touch a few nerves, but I would like to have some feedback and friendly discussion nonetheless. When I started telling people we were getting an ALD puppy, half of the people were rude and judgmental--saying, "What are you thinking? Are you crazy?" referring to two things; the cost ($2500 + shipping) and to the work involved (I have 4 young daughters and two other big labs). Many told me horror stories about their most recent puppy experiences, and all the things that got ruined; carpet, shoes, furniture, etc., One young couple in particular, (DINKS--dual income, no kids), had a golden retriever puppy that was a disaster behaviorally and property-destruction wise for about 7 months. BUT the dog is in a kennel 9+ hours a day...

Ok, here it comes.... I personnally don't think it's fair to get a dog, then put it in a kennel all day; M-F. I would tear s*#@ up too if I was cooped up so much. I'm a stay at home mom, (I have a BS Business degree with a minor in human development & family studies, but chose to stay home after a few failed attempts at part time work. I finally discovered that God and my family were calling me home--but that;s another topic), and I am interacting with my dogs all day long. For example, when I'm pushing the kids in the swings, I am usually also brushing the labs with the undercoat rake, or curry comb. When I take a walk, I look like a dog walker with my double stroller. But it's fun, for me, my kids, and my dogs.

I'm going to try really hard not to sound judgmental here, but I'm going to apologize in advance if it comes across that way; I don't understand why people get dogs that they don't have time for? I just read over the re-homing discussion about helping members who might be on the fence, and it got me thinking about this issue. I'm really not trying to upset anyone, I know everyone has their own circumstances, I just wanted to put my two cents out there. Please don't get mad at me and post angry comments, (I WILL cry...)

I hope that my post has been tactful and non-judgmental, as that was my aim.

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

Denise for how long do you crate your dogs? If it is s couple of hours here and there no biggy. But I am sure you dont put Hannah, being all grown up and well-behaved, in a cage 8 hours a day. Sometimes in life you have to take a risk. Are you saying it is better to preserve the physical well being of the dog at the cost of the mental well-being? A dog isnt a hamster and can NOT live a life in a cage.

I have had dogs for my entire adult life. Nothing untoward happened to them whilst I was away. I have never boxed them up to ensure their safety at home. Give them more credit. They have a brain, they are pretty good at keeping themselves safe in a reasonable environment where there is a place for everything and everything is in its place . In my house you will never ever find opened bottles of tylenol laying around or bowl of grapes on the coffee table. When I leave home I take the full 60 seconds to make sure everything is in order before I lock up.

[Lynne Fowler-Oodles of Doodles]

Ditto...I do the same thing. I leave the TV on for them and all 4 of them are just fine including the in and out fosters. They have a dog door to get out to the yard and I trust that they will get out of it if there were a fire. I have never had a dog die on me and I have never crated.

[HANNAH 8/2/07 & HONEY 7/2/08]

My dogs have been crated (depending on what I have to do) from a few hours a day up to about 8 hours in an emergency situation when they needed to wait for my sister to come get them because I was hospitalized. If I worked a full time job they would be crated, with a pet sitter coming in to give them a break or doggy daycare. A well adjusted dog can deal with being in a crate for 8 hours a day, if they are properly taken care of when the owner returns home and walked, allowed to play and not be confined again till the next morning. I don't feel you are harming the mental well being of an animal if they are crated while their owner is away and working, once that person is home, that is a different story. How does a dog define time, do they know they were locked up for 8 hours a day, dogs have no concept of time. Humans do and I clearly stated "Abuse of a crate is when owners leave their pets for hours on end (10 to 12 hours a day, on a regular basis), than come home and let the dog out for 10 to 20 mins. and as soon as the dog is into things instead of teaching the dog they crate the dog again, when they are off and are to busy doing other things instead of training the dog or spending time with the dog and shoving it back into a crate, thats crate abuse in my opinion." When I leave my apartment I do a sweep of everything also, but that does not mean that my neighbor does, or that my apartment can't catch on fire when I am gone., or that my landlord will not come into my apartment while I am away. My dogs in their crates with a pet reminder on the door, lets people know where my dogs are in a fire, and keeps them safer. I have raised and breed a few diffrent breeds of dogs including poodles, worked from 7 to 3, 3 to 11, 11 to 7 jobs and I'm full aware of their brains. Thats wonderfull that you can be on your family to not let things lie around, your lucky to not have had a parent with Alzhemiers symptoms who forgets the last meal they ate let alone where they put something or left it lay where the dog could find it. But that would be my fault that Dad got into something while I had to excuse myself and use the bathroom for a change. I also didnt think I said open bottles of tylenol...dogs can chew the caps off closed ones. I really am looking forward to the senior doodle kisses, when you all say back in the day?

[Jacquie Yorke (DRC)]

http://www.seefido.com/html/concept_of_time_for_dogs.htm

Dog's sense of time: It has been hypothesized that dog's notion of time (and its elapse) is not so much chronological as it is based on a biological rhythm that is linked to their terrific skills of memory association. We humans are often amazed at the ability our dogs have to anticipate the daily arrival of their masters from work or the kids from school. And how is it that they know what hour to wake up every morning summer or winter? How is it that dogs can tell the time? Dogs have been known to show up at a train station everyday at the same hour to receive their returning masters and everyone who has a dog knows that when meal times role around their dog shows up no matter where it was or what it was doing. So how is it that our dogs are able to know when it is time for certain things to happen or take place? One clue is that they live in a world predominately made up of humans and wehumans are generally quite predictable, waking and sleeping at certain hours, eating at certain set times, leaving and returning home at certain set times, etc…
One thing that we do know is that dogs over time build up a tremendous wealth of memory association cue. And they perceive the slightest changes and actions around them. By interpreting the multitudes of sensations around them such as the smells, amount of ambient light, actions of the people around them, turning on of artificial house lights, food preparations, etc… they are able to make decisions and act accordingly. Although we cannot deny the possibility of some special and unknown sense within dogs that allows them to know the time of day what we do know is that using the senses that are available to them and by picking up and processing the information that is all around them they are able to act and/or react in a surprisingly accurate and predictable way.

[HANNAH 8/2/07 & HONEY 7/2/08]

I'm not saying that a dog does not have a sense of how time works or works off of cues. But they can not tell time. They do not know how long they have been in a crate. My dogs like any dog knows, I get up, they get walked and fed. They know when I start cooking dinner, they get fed. Thats called pre conditioning under Pavlov's dog. A condition dog gets use to things around them and when things happen, not that they can tell time.

[Nancy Sunderland]

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

That must be Vanessa on the right, I can definitely see the "devil" in those eyes! Yes, you have yourself a handful there!
Beautiful girls!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Because a dog is not a child. I also wouldn't put a leash on a toddler or feed him from a bowl on the floor.
In my home, even if the dog was crated, when a 15 yr old came home, he would have been expected to let the dog out of the crate and take him outside. And he wouldn't have left grapes or any other food sitting out if he expected to be leaving the house again in this lifetime. Even my 10 year old grandson knows he has to put food away. I can't imagine a household where teenagers come home and the poor dog is left in the crate for another three hours because these almost-adults are too irresponsible to clean up after themselves or let a dog out? And this kid is going to be driving next year? I think a household like that probably shouldn't have a dog until they get their kids under control.
Seriously, everyone runs their household the way they see fit, and has to make these choices for themselves. But to confine a dog to a cage for 9 hours a day because it's easier to crate a dog than to clean up after one's self, I personally just don't understand that.

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

Denise. That was silly! !! LOL! Yes you saved your dog from eating Jimmy's grapes by caging him. But I can make a scenario of that caliber too. 'Heinrich who would never crate his dog while at work as usual left for the day to go to his job as a grommet maker. While away the duplex he lives in went up in flames due to an electrical short circuit in the baseboard heating system. Fido managed to break through the first floor plate glass window and survived. Unfortunately Jimmy Doe, who lives next door, came home to find the charred remains of his dog Rover in his crate.'

[HANNAH 8/2/07 & HONEY 7/2/08]

Exact same scearnio happened at the apartment complex we lived in a few years ago. Hope the pic will show up, I have attached it. All dogs who were in crates at the time of this fire, were easly found by the firemen and rescued. One PUPPY lost it's life...do you know why...it crawled under a bed to protect itself and was overcome by the smoke because the firemen couldnt find it.
Had that puppy been crated, it would have been alive today

[HANNAH 8/2/07 & HONEY 7/2/08]

We also post on our doors with stickers from our fire dept ...how many pets we have..where they are located, so it is easier for them to be found in emergency's. Most firefighters will tell you, the best saved pet is a controled, crated pet.

[Jacquie Yorke (DRC)]

Had this dog been crated..He would be DEAD!
From the Dogs Are Smarter Than Us Dept:

Dog Uses Bath Drain To Breathe Amid Fire :
Long Island Pooch Jumped Into Tub, Closed Curtain As House Burned Down

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/...

A big 150-pound black Newfoundland named Jackson managed to escape harm during a house fire by jumping into a bathtub, pulling the curtain closed, and using the drain to breathe fresh air. Wow. I would have never thought of that.

Firefighters were astounded to see that the dog somehow figured out that the drain would allow him to breathe.

A common mantra says to duck below the smoke if you run out of oxygen and find fresh air wherever you can. Jackson was literally inside the bathtub, sucking the air out of the drainpipe, an "old school thing" that a firefighter would do.