Any former Resource Guarders out there?...Advice, Support, Encouragement please!

[Julie Mison]

Our 5 month Chewie continues to show his strong willed personality. He has just completed a 5 day drop off training program where he has learned loose leash walk, heel with auto sit, down and stay. Well..he is "trained" for the trainers and doing fairly well with us and we know his success is dependent on our consistency.

He has had a hx of some growling/snapping...usually with high value bully sticks or ears ..on and off. This last week, he has gotten really bad. He used to let us take most items from him when he'd pick up things outside or inside. Not this week. He is growling and doing the snappy mouth thing!

I am so confused about the different approaches. Some say use treats and trade and some say be the leader/alpha and don't "bribe" him ....because we should "own" or control all things.

We put in a message to the trainer we were working with and she emailed back saying we should videotape his behavior so she can better understand it and that we may need to see the vet as it sounds like a behavioral problem. Not sure what seeing the vet will do?

Anyway...looking for any perspective, insight and success stories! Is it possible that his behavior has gotten worse in this area as he has just recently "lost control" in other areas?

Thanks in advance!

[F, Calla & Luca]

I certainly don't understand the "see the Vet" either. I thought trainers specifically work to help with behavioral issues. It doesn't sound like something physiologically based or that would require medication. You might want to ask her what she meant.

[Julie Mison]

Thanks...yes, we have asked for her to clarify!

[Kyoko]

I am thinking that your trainer may want to rule out all of the possibilties related to the medical issues if there are any. I can be very wrong, but I am only saying this because when I deal with children's behavior ( I am a social worker / therapist ) we try to rule out possiblities of medical conditions that can be possibly contributing to the behavior before we start treating them for their behaviors. i.e. if the dog growl because something is hurting him, vet have to take care of that first before addressing the growling part. I hope this makes sense to you~ But I am neither vet or trainer.....

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Did they teach "drop it" in his training program? I think that's a key command to help with guarding. I still train this everyday with Guinness to make sure he continues to comply consistently. I tell him to "drop it" with his favorite toys and bones. I don't substitute a treat, but he gets lots of praise, and usually he'll get whatever he had back after a short wait (unless he had something he wasn't supposed to have). I'd hate to label this a behavioral problem, unless you find that the training doesn't work. Bottom line, I would never, ever let Guinness win one of these battles. When we first started training, he would run away with the "prize" so I wouldn't take it away. It never worked for him. I didn't stop until I got it, and he really knew he was never going to win. Good Luck!

[HANNAH 8/2/07 & HONEY 7/2/08]

Chewie is still a puppy, consistency with puppies does not always happen at 5 months, some pups/dogs take till they are 18 months to get training and some do it at 3 months. It's not fair for anyone to compare or judge your dogs ability with others/ or a time limit. They all learn at different rates and things change along the way. If he is trained for the trainers and only doing fairly well with you...that is not trained and yes his success is dependent on your consistency. Training is a lifetime. As for the growling and snapping, I have never had this happen whenever I go to take anything from my dogs, guess they all learned pretty quickly who alpha was. I started from young on up taking their food while they are eating, replacing it with another high value bowl of their food just in a different bowl so they think they switched. If it was 105 degrees out and you had a huge cool strawberry daquari to cool yourself off, and someone came along and took it from you...you would be pissed off also. Well your p****** your dog off by taking his high value treats away, and you need to replace them with another high value treat. I like to use the terms "switch" or "trade" "leave it" "drop it" ...that is giving them the sign you want them to give up what they have....as your saying this, you should be showing your dog they are going to get something else high in value for reward for giving up what they have. You also need to practice this with your dog as you would practice other training techniques. This also will not happen overnight, you need to continously Practice, Praise, and have lots of Patience...it will happen if you work at it.

[HANNAH 8/2/07 & HONEY 7/2/08]

Oh and for High Value treats I use either broken up bits of Turkey bacon which is very good for your dog, or Zukes which you can purchase on line. They also have in pet stores "Training Treats" which you can break apart and just use a little at a time. The zukes work really great and have used them for years when training. Our training facility here endorses them. They also are all natural. They come in Chicken, Peanut Butter, and Salmon. Here are some links for them....

http://www.zukes.com/woof/mini-naturals.html

http://www.doggiefood.com/zukesmininaturals.html

http://www.k9cuisine.com/m-21-zukes.aspx

[Adrianne Matzkin]

I get our Zukes at doggiefood.com!! Their price for the 16 oz bag (7.00) is the same as the 6 oz bag buying it retail! I got 4 bags with shipping for $28.00. they are soft enough to break into pieces.

[shelly]

See the vet??? Hopefully she meant to rule out any discomfort or pain. If not, that's like putting a child on ritalin as soon as there MAY be issues! I thought trainers were suppposed to help with "behavioral" issues. Any way - I'm off my soap box.... LOL Tori went through that "snappy" thing too. she would grab anything and run under the dining room table where we coldn't get to her so easily and she knew it. She would growl, but never really snapped. We could pry it away. We would do the treat thing, but then I thought because she is soooo smart, that she was just taking the stuff to get a treat. Until one day.... she grabbed something - don't even remember what now- and went under my son's bed. I tried to go down and gently talk her out and when I went to put my hand under, she actually went to bite. And not just a snip, she went to really like attack my hand and drew blood. WELL - I screamed LOUD the kids got scared when they saw the blood on my hand so they screamed. my husband grabbed her out and she RAN right into her crate. I kept yelling at her NO NO BAD girl!!! (What can I tell you - I freaked out on her) - yelling, showing her my hand and yelling no bite. I wouldn't even talk to her the entire night. She KNEW she was bad! And then - like magic KNOCK WOOD, she never did it again - not even the snapping thing. Guess she taught me how to step up and "be the boss". Sorry I don't have a solution, but I truly think they do go through like a defiant teenager type time where they push the limits to see who's in charge. Just be really tough. Don't let him walk around loose in house. Keep her tethered, YOU walk out of the house first, make him wait a bit for food until YOU say it's ok. All of this will help to show that YOU ARE HIS LEADER. I did do this for about a week. It seemed to have done something. Good luck! You are NOT alone. And it's not only your dog! ~ Shelly
PS - It took every bit of strength for me not to open the door and throw her right out that night LOL

[Adrianne Matzkin]

I am also no vet or trainer but I am old and wise LOL!!! I also am friends with a Certified Professional Trainer.

I believe in bribery when training. If you want something he has, and he gives it to you, reward that. Not when he is growling or snapping but when he gives it up with cooperation! Try it with something of even higher value - a juicy piece of warm steak or chicken - the aroma of warm meat has to get to his nose to get his attention on what you are holding and take the attention off the object he has. Don't say anything - let the waves of smell hit his nose - get his attention on the steak - ask for the toy while showing the meat. Once he gives up the toy give a HUGE YES, give him the meat in several small bites. Treat, treat, treat. Give back the toy (if it is a safe one) so he sees that giving you his toy, he gets steak and the toy back & thinks hey, that wasn't so bad. No toy given up = no treat. I would start this type of training with a toy that he normally gives up without an argument. Let him know that the steak is coming whenever he gives up a toy. And that he gets it back (of course, not something dangerous) or gets back a different toy.

If this doesn't work, which it may not work on the first try but keep trying, you should consult a behaviorist - not necessarily your trainer. I assume he drops other objects that he doesn't consider high value.

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

Is your trainer an animal behavioralist? Ours is and has a degree in psychology with a focus on behavior modification and animal learning. She just came back from an animal agression seminar in Atlanta over the weekend. Try to find someone that participates in ongoing education like that. Chewie is young and you CAN fix this! Also, I depend on my vet for medical advice only, they do not seem to be a big expert on behavior or foods!

And I absolutely agree with Adrianne - bribery (aka positive reinforcement) seems to be the only way Peri will learn anything. The "nos" just don't work! We even practice Leave It by covering a treat with our foot and giving her another treat from out hand when she backs away from our foot and the treat.

[Julie Mison]

Our trainer is a certified master trainer? Not sure what all that entails....probably should look into it in more detail!

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

She is probably a great trainer, it really depends on their background and how they deal with the behavioral issues - mine has pretty good way to deal with most odd behavioral questions. But I think you have some good tips in this discussion. I would eliminate those high value toys/treats for a while until things calm down. I cannot let Peri have one of their elk antlers because she and Taquito fight over it! THe other one they don't care about!