A Dark Side to One of my Doodles

[Diane Hinson]

I have two Goldendoodles -- Kayla, who is almost 4, and Ginger, who just turned 2.  Kayla is as sweet as can be and would never hurt a soul.  Ginger seems to have a "dark side," as our trainer put it.  She sometimes just gets this really mean look, gets very possessive of whatever it is she deems "hers" -- whatever leash is closest, the dog hairbrush, or the sock that she stole -- and growls and snaps like a vicious dog if anyone comes near her.  Sometimes she will trade for a treat.  But not always.  

Last night she bit my husband and drew blood when he approached.  Once she went through this crazy routine just because an innocent 2-year-old was standing "too close" to her food bowl.  My daughter thinks she is schizophrenic.  I am worried that she is going to bite a child and the county will require that she be put down.

Help?!!

Diane

[Diane Hinson]

She has always done it a little -- with socks -- but this guarding of random items (her food, a leash, etc) has just been in the last few weeks/months and it has become much more frequent. She will just start to growl at one of us. Our trainer, who is a behaviorist, tells us to trade her for treats, because the more she does the "bad" behavior, the more it becomes ingrained in her. So, we limit her access to the upstairs and close all the doors to the bedrooms to try to make sure she cannot steal socks (she particularly likes my 12-year-old son's dirty socks and has, on occasion, swallowed them...but that is another story). She has witnessed the behavior when she boards our dogs and, ultimately, thinks there are some bad genes in Ginger.

Last night, Ginger found a sock of my son's and took it under our bed. I was asleep and my husband tried to pull her out by one of her back legs (NOT a good move). She turned and bit him on the hand, drawing blood. She was not dropping the sock in response to peanut butter on a pretzel, and he was afraid if she swallowed it, she would get stopped up and throw up again for the next several days like the last time.

She has always been the Alpha dog over Kayla. But she does seem anxious. I think she needs to go on Prozac.

[Jacquie Yorke (DRC)]

I am pro-meds......They quell the anxiety and fear which then enables the dog to stop hyper-focusing on the guarded item and focus instead on the training and re-programming.......It doesn't have to be a forever thing.

I think it's great that you are swapping one item for another......It has to be repetitive and you have to remain consistent....Sometimes it's hard to determine what items are considered "higher value items".......

We have seen this behavior a few times in rescue...Especially with the miniatures and mediums.....

Is this a new or recent behavior for Ginger?...If so I would have your vet run a thyroid panel.....Aggression and guarding behavior can be symptoms of low thyroid function .....

[Kyoko]

I wonder how much of the training she had... May be you can work with your behaviorist more particular in this area. I am not an expart, but I have been working for quite sometimes to desensitize mine to the certain situations as well. It takes a lot of time and effort, as well as $. However, it is all worth it to save everyone, physically and emotionally, I think.

[Dr. Judith P. LaVorgna]

Obviously you know, pulling her by the leg not such a good idea...if it hurt or frightened her that, not the sock, could have created the bite. Was it dark in the bedroom at the point (and darker still under the bed)? Overall, you need to look at how you have trained, or responded to her as she's been with you. Is it the same or different from Kayla. And children near feeding bowls...not a good idea even with dogs who are generally not food aggressive or food guarders. It's how quickly they move. It almost feels as if Ginger and Kayla were not "raised" with the same rules. Are both not allowed upstairs or just Ginger. Look deeply into how Ginger and Kayla respond to direction and training. Have both had the same "rules"...so many questions. A dog who bites is dangerous...to himself or herself for what could ultimately happen, and to you because your senese of trust may be shattering. I would get her into a training class, puppy, whatever stage she's in or at...and go from there teaching her to respond to you and your signals. If something doesn't change the dark side, as you call it, then it sounds like there could be problems ahead. I hope you with get yourselves into a class asap, or with a trainer who can observe the interactions. These are Ginger's early warning signs. Get direction and training asap.
Kaya and Ginger may need different kinds of training and signals, dogs are different from one another and need training that works specifically for them sometimes. You don't want to set her up for failure when you still have the opportunity for success. Plus, everyone in the family should go to the classes so all can practice what is being learned. It's a tough call, but it sounds like the longer you postpone an intervention, the sooner Ginger is "at risk". She's depending on you to get her into a comfort zone before it escalates further Go training, rules, appropriate response.....

[shelly]

Hi Diane.. we have had a couple of similar instances with Tori. She too bit me and my mother-in-law and drew blood. One time Tori had stollen - something - can;t even remember what now... but she had run under my son's bed. I bent down and put my hand under the bed and she practically attacked my hand with this vicious snarling face. I think I startled her , of course I was yelling at her to give it, and she felt threatened. Honestly after she bit me, I don't know how I just didn't open the door and let her out. I was SOOOO mad and she knew it. She put herself in her crate and I didn't speak to her for the rest of the night.She did go after my mother-in-law's hand too, when she tried to again get something she stole and slipped under the dining room table - her favorite escape spot. I don;t know if she has gotten better and giving up the stolen item in trade for 'bread' (her favorite),but I don't want to reinforce the stealing to get a treat... or WE have just gotten better at reading her body language, and we don't put our hands under anything to take anything away. and my kids are NEVER allowed to take anything away. She too, is a swallower of objects. She doesn't guard her food, toys or anything else - just THINGS and oh yeah - paper towels or napkins....
I do know how frustrated yo feel and I wish you all the luck in finding a good behaviorist!

Jacquie - you bring up a good point... I wonder how severe the guarding has to be to believe it could be a thyroid thing???

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

My trainer told me something that might help. One of the dogs in Murphy's puppy class was a big "resource guarder". He would growl and snap at the owners when they tried to take away things that he valued. She suggested some very specific strategies for this dog, but for the rest of us she suggested that we play a "game" with our dogs regularly. You take a couple of their favorite toys and practice the "drop it" command while sitting on the floor with them. You use high value treats and as she put it "make it a party" with lots of excitement and praise every time they do it. When they drop the toy at your command they get not only the treat, but a different toy. My guys love it. I try to make it feel different from their training time. I think they sort of consider this their "play time" with Mom. They have also learned that when they give me what I ask for good things happen. While they don't get that particular toy back right away, they get a treat and a different toy. I really think this has helped to prevent any guarding behaviors with Guinness and Murph. Also, I totally agree that there should be no young children around the dogs when they're eating. Even though I've never had an issue, I keep my grandkids out of the kitchen when my guys are eating.

[Joy Williams]

We had the same issue with the dog we had before we got the Doods. She was a Golden Retriever/Husky, but she looked like a black lab. She definitely had a dark side and was a lot like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hide, if you will. I know exactly what you mean about the "mean look". She bit both me & my husband, as well as 2 of our grandsons. Everytime they would come for a visit (we were living in NC at the time) we would board her in the kennel for their safety. But what was so weird is, for instance, I could come home from work and she would be so glad to see me and just wagging that tail, just couldn't get enough "sugar". But if I would stop long enough to put down my purse, then go back to petting her, she would growl at me like I was someone she didn't know.
She was worse at night than during the day, and worse inside than she was outside. She could be so hateful while inside, but if you took her outside, she was a completely different dog. We took her to several different vets as well as to a trainer and a behaviorist. One vet put her on several different meds including Prozac, and one recommended we put her down. But we just couldn't do it. She was our baby and I refused to have her put down. She would crawl up on the sofa beside you, but if you reached over to touch her, sometimes she would growl at you, and sometimes she would wag her tail. You just never knew. She lived 7 years, but she got an auto immune disease, and even with steriods, her health continued to decline so we eventually had her put down. Even with all the times that she was so hateful towards us, it still broke our hearts to have to put her down. RIP, "Devil Dog".