Dear dog owners: please stop this.

[Kaitee and Orwell]

Hey everyone- I know I haven't been active on this site for a while because I haven't really had a need for advice lately and I've been busy with school and work. My hard work paid off though and I got a job at Boeing that I start in May. Orwell and I are moving into an apartment for about a year and then we will most likely be buying a house.

I hope all of you are well this holiday season.

Today I'm not really asking for advice as far as Orwell goes, but something happened yesterday that I do need advice on how to approach the issue. I came home last night from work and Orwell greeted me as his usual happy self as if his day was completely normal. My mother, however, was not exactly fine and was still shook up by what happened earlier as she told me the story. She took Orwell for a walk yesterday and they both were attacked by a Bouvier des Flandres that lives in another part of the neighborhood. She said that she and Orwell were pursued for about 10 minutes. She was knocked down on the ground in the beginning, scraped her knee and twisted her back pretty good. Orwell stood over her for the remainder of the time fending off the other dog by growling until a neighbor heard my mom's cries for help and came and was able to bring them to safety in her garage while keeping the other dog out. Orwell was bit at on his behind, but the dog didn't connect because Orwell has longer hair at the moment.

The other dog's owner is an older man who said in passing as he was trying to get control of his dog that he must have gotten out through the window. First off, I'm wondering why the window was even open and without a screen. It is cold right now. If we open windows in our house, we only crack them open. Furthermore, if you know your dog has a tendency to aggressiveness, you should keep your dog secure in the house and make sure they cannot get at other dogs/people. Or, better yet, do not own a dog you cannot handle. I don't have anything against Bouviers (I've met a couple of great ones and my aunt used to own one), but they do have protective tendencies and need extensive socialization as a puppy to understand what is and what is not a threat. A big problem that arose in this altercation was that even the owner of the dog could not get him to stop coming after my mom and Orwell.

Also, this is the SECOND time this has happened to my mother and Orwell. For some reason she is always the one walking him when this stuff happens. The previous incident was with another medium sized doodle who sprinted off his/her porch and went straight for Orwell's neck. My mom was able to block the attack with her leg and trip up the dog without getting bit herself. Luckily that dog was smaller and unable to knock my mother down and they were able to quickly scurry away from the dog and that dog did not follow them past the corner.

So, my question is what do I do if I see this man again who owns the Bouvier? I don't know the person who owns the doodle, but I do know what the man who owns the Bouvier looks like. Should I bring up my concerns to him and if so, how do I do it without being too heated? I will admit that I am pretty livid about the situation and it could have easily resulted in large vet and medical bills. I don't get truly angry about many things, but when it comes to people I love and my puppy, I have a low tolerance for situations that can be avoided entirely. We now don't feel comfortable walking in that part of the neighborhood (we will not continue to go down that way) and I don't think that it is right for anyone to feel unsafe while walking their dog.

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

Congratulations on your new job and finishing school!  Yeah!

This IS a tricky one.  Clearly the man cannot control his dog, yet the dog may be his only company.

I still (at 72) find it difficult to manage these really emotional situations.  I was on a school board for twenty years and never lost my temper with anyone.  But when it comes to your own dog and mother that is really difficult.

Here is my advice, hopefully others will chime in and you can use what works for you.

First I would write down everything I want to say - emotions and all. That will help you release some fear, anger and anxiety.

Then wait awhile and edit it.  It should boil down to how scared your mom was and how scared and upset you were, but you realize that his dog is important to him.  Ask him if wants to keep his dog or needs help rehoming him.  Presuming he wants to keep his dog, tell him that you understand how difficult it can be to handle a large dog who likes to escape, but that twice now his dog has escaped and attacked your mom and dog as they have walked by.  If it happens a third time, you will feel obligated to report it to the police as the dog is dangerous if he is loose.

Ask him if he needs help securing his property so that the dog cannot escape. Then suggest whatever senior agency ( or agencies) or dog rescues are around might be willing to help him keep his dog.  If you can provide names and or phone numbers that's great.

Giving him the help to rehome his dog if that is what he wants or needs may solve the problem.  If not, it is necessary for everyone else's safety, not just your mom and your dog, that his dog is unable to leave the property. If it comes down to reporting the dog to the police that is really difficult, causing guilt, anxiety and general ickiness all around.  However three times is one time too many and you will need back up managing the problem. 

If it comes to calling don't call in anger, calm down first, gaather you thoughts and think of the police as helpful, not punishing.  They often have resources to help in these situations that you do not.  Express that hope that they can be helpful to the man keeping his dog as you are out of ideas.

I will ask Nancy of Nancy, Ned and Clancy to respond too.  She is a good calm problem solver.

Again, congratulations!

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Oh my gosh, I just saw this and your advice is very heartfelt, Maryann. Now that I am older, I realize that we can't do it all - we are not up to managing larger or untrained dogs. This dog and the man may be very attached but the living situation is not safe to continue.

Kaitee - Congratulations on the great job.  I am very excited for you and know you have worked very hard to become qualified for it.  Whoohoo! 

 Maryann's suggestions were really helpful and mostly I am repeating what she already wrote.

I would not wait long to approach the man. Knock on his door and speak without going inside. I would tell him you are the daughter of the woman and owner of the dog that  his dog attacked.  I would be very honest in telling him that this can't happen again because someone could be more seriously hurt, another dog could be killed, and the man would be held responsible both emotionally and financially.  (I would not give him your full name, number or address).  I agree about the window being open is odd, but perhaps when he gives it to you it will make more sense (our dogs have gone through the screens in an open window). It IS cold up there so why would his window even be open?

 I would assess his reactions  - if he reacts in an angry manner, I'd quickly leave and then report the incident to the police or animal control. If he acknowledges there was a problem but just gives a bunch of excuses, as if that made it okay, I would say nothing more, but I would also report the incident.   If he seems overwhelmed, you might be able to help him more if you feel that you can.

 Maryann's suggestions for helping more  are good ones -- Brainstorm what can be done -

Perhaps the dog is too much for him and it could be re-homed.  You could offer to look up local rescues for him, maybe even help him contact the rescue - if you feel you want to do so.  He might be able to adopt a smaller, friendlier dog more suitable for his home and ability to care for it.

Maybe his home needs escape-proofing.  Suggest that a relative might help him. Some churches have outreach for the elderly that includes other seniors who have construction skills. Is there a senior citizen center in your town? They might have resources to help.

You are a very caring person, Kaitee, even to consider that there might be some angle you hadn't thought of.

[DonMarie and Picco]

I agree with this, don't wait but think through what you want to say and assess his reaction.  You really don't know his situation.  He might be overwhelmed but wants the company of a dog (can't fault him for that).   The dog might need more exercise and socialized if it spends too much time inside the house - trainer/dog walker can help??  Or not the proper dog for him.

Maybe the neighbor that witnessed the attack can go with you for support.  Two might be better than one but don't bring a crowd.

Congrats on the new job!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Nice to see you here again Kaitee, even if it is for an unpleasant reason.

This is a problem in my neighborhood as well. Somehow, somebody's large untrained dog is always getting out of the house or the yard and going after dogs who are being walked on leash. It happened to me and Jackdoodle more times than I can count. Only one of the times resulted in injury, unfortunately to JD, who was bitten on the face and head and had to go to the ER. I knew the owners, who reimbursed me for the vet bill and promised it would not happen again. In other cases, the same dogs would get out and run at us repeatedly, with the owners taking no responsiblity and one owner going so far as to tell me to "walk somewhere else." That person's dog attacked my friend's dog not long after, resulting in a vet visit and stitches. 

You have gotten some good advice here from others who are clearly much nicer, more understanding people than I am, lol.

I'm done trying to be understanding and nice about this. It is just not that hard to keep your dog from running loose in the streets. It's dangerous to both the dog who is running loose and to the people & dogs in his way, and it also creates dog reactiveness in the victims, which is what happened to JD. I have a right to enjoy walking in my neighborhood with my dog without having to fear for his safety or my own. I personally call the police the minute it happens. 

[Kaitee and Orwell]

Thank you all for your responses. 

I think I'm going to write a letter to him and leave it in his mailbox. I have a 52 hour work week this week and after my shift all I really want to do is cuddle with Orwell and not talk to people, lol (I do converse better with people much older than myself, but still). Trying to start a conversation with a stranger is not something I'm looking to do right now to add to my stress. However, I am open to talking to him after this week or in a couple of weeks. I'm going to give him suggestions on how to improve behavior and to secure his house. Like Karen said, I don't think it is that hard to keep your dog secure, and that is the part that makes me the most angry. I have a well behaved dog, but he still can't get out front. 

I do also understand that the man wants to keep his dog. I know his wife is still living with him so he isn't that lonely, but you would have to pry Orwell out of my cold dead hands before I gave him up. So I get that. I just wish that this man would have chosen a smaller dog for his later years. Even my mother who is only 58 will never get another dog over 30 lbs because if the dog becomes arthritic in his/her senior years, she knows that she won't be able to help lift and support the dog due to her bad back. She could barely do it 5 years ago with our 55 lbs yellow lab.

Luckily Orwell is big enough to protect himself against a Bouvier. I hate to think about what would have happened if he was a mini labradoodle.

I also don't want to see any dog put down. Even if /I/ was bitten, I would want to take steps to improve that dogs life. I don't want a dog put down and have it be on my conscience for the rest of time. In a situation like that, I would want the dog to be taken to training and rehomed to a situation which would prevent the dog from having an incident again. I never get angry at a dog (and I'm not angry with the one that attacked Orwell and my mom), I just get angry with the humans behind them that clearly don't know what they are doing.

[DonMarie and Picco]

DON'T leave it in his mailbox!  Fed law you can't do that!  Can you leave it on his door? Or even mail it?

A few years back my husband did that to neighbors with barking dogs (after I told him not to do it) and one of them told him if he does it again he will turn him in! 

Otherwise I agree with your decision!   But just because he has a wife doesn't mean he isn't lonely!  ;-)

[Kaitee and Orwell]

Thanks for the heads up. Good to know... I will mail it to him. 

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Kaitee, I think your decision about a letter is a good one. If Donna says not in the mailbox then bring some tape to fasten it to his door. If you or your mom see the Dog loose again, report it. 

[Kaitee and Orwell]

If I see him loose again I will do that and have a one on one with the man.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

You are a kind person.  Please keep us informed.

[Kate C Pappas]

Please put it on his porch, make sure the writing is large and maybe in red so he notices it. You cannot put things inside a US mailbox that hasn't actually been mailed.

[Kaitee and Orwell]

I'm going to mail it and put a stamp on it. I know the address.