Do you Get What You Pay For?

[StaceyW]

We have been researching labradoodles and have figured out what we are hoping for (F1B or multigen, light coat, fleece). Here is the dilemna. We have found a well established very knowledgable breeder. Puppies are about $2300 which seems about average for metro Atlanta - we are confident that we would get what we paid for and would be happy - two year health guarantee, hip testing, heart testing We have also found a family that breeds labradoodles F1B- no health guarantees - they are their family pets that they have bred before - cost is $600 for a puppy - 1/4 the cost!! Now given that our last two dogs were pound puppies (one which had medical issues) and that we had them and loved them for 12 years - we are having a hard time contemplating spending thousands of dollars on what is essentially a mutt (a loveable non shedding mutt but still . . .). We have no need for papers etc. We just want a great family pet. Thoughts on this? thanks

[Doodle Kisses]

I would argue a resounding YES! but it depends on everything you are promised/given by the costlier breeder.

However to me...the biggest factor is 'who am I supporting'? Buying from anyone who doesn't do the testing, give a guarantee for health, guarantee they'd help rehome, etc...is supporting irresponsible breeding. A breeder who studies the dog's lines, health tests, stands behind what he/she produces is invaluable.

However...if cost is a concern or you simply don't feel right paying such prices... my suggestion would be to rescue. Fill out an application with IDOG and the right dog or puppy will come...check other rescue sites too! That way the money issue is solved, you help a dog in need, and you don't support casual breeding.

[Jeanette]

I so agree with Adina!

[Phoebe's Mom]

I think, as with anything, you could pay a lot for a dog and still have issues or take a chance and find a wonderful pet. We really wanted a labradoodle but could not afford the high pice tag. I researched 37 breeders--put on an Excel spreadsheet that my DH still mocks me for including testing, guarantee for health etc.--of varying prices and contacted each one. I found a wonderful breeder in Arkansas--we live in MN--so I could not visit nor see the puppies when they were born. She was amazing though answering each phone call promptly, each email by day's end--usually within a few hours, updating us with photos and dealing with me and my countless questions. The day we were to receive our puppy an ice storm hit AK and our plans needed to be changed. Our breeder called me numerous times during the day to keep us informed and traveled all the way to another airport to make sure she did not disappoint my children. Our Phoebe, whom we adore and who is EVERYTHING our breeder said she would be, cost only $850--she is an F1B chocolate labradoodle with a fabulous personality whom my vet said she wants to steal! Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

[Adina P]

I wanted to add a bit more...and it's just my feelings/beliefs about this. Not everyone will agree.

Like with any living creature there is always risk and there is always potential for the worst circumstances to turn out a GREAT dog. I know members of this site who unknowingly, but definitely, got their doodle from a puppy mill and have had zero problems with their dog so far. So realistically both good responsible breeders can put out great family pets and even puppy mills can.

And there are members of this site who got their doodle from 'responsible' breeders who fit all the criteria, yet their dog got hip dysplasia or some other condition for which there is no screening test. So even a good breeder can, potentially, put out an unhealthy family pet. Rosco is from a breeder I trust, who did all the health testing and he had entropian eye in both eyes -- he needed surgery to repair it. My breeder reimbursed me in full for the surgery and to me that means a lot--because she stood behind her pups and even though there was no proof that Rosco's entropian was a hereditary condition, she still stood by her guarantee.

Of course the risk of problems is higher from the breeder who just happened to decide "Hmm I have an unneutered poodle...and well look I have an unspayed doodle too! Why not make f1b doodles!?" than one who spent time carefully choosing their breeding pair by researching lines and doing health testing and doing their best to put out a healthy litter.

When purchasing a dog you're not just getting a pet...you are getting more than that. Depending on who you buy from you are giving a stamp of approval to the given breeder, you are promoting their business and increasing the chances they'll continue to breed in the future. To me it's merely the principle of the matter based on my beliefs about breeding and buying dogs.

There isn't a shortage of dogs...and not really even of doodles (check petfinder, craigslist, various puppy sales sites and you'll find LOTS) so to me if someone is going to take on the responsibility of creating MORE dogs then that responsibility (for me) involves doing things to the highest standard.

I've assisted two members in re-homing their doodles so far. My assistance was merely talking with them over the phone about their options (I didn't actually find the new homes)...but any time someone asks me for help in this area, my VERY FIRST suggestion is "Have you spoken with the breeder?" A good breeder will ALWAYS take back a pup or at least help in rehoming. This shows their dedication to the pups they produced and responsibility about never creating pups that end up in a shelter. A 'family' who is just breeding for the heck of it...isn't likely to do that. The typical family that breeds also isn't likely to recognize a 'fleece' coat and know a whole lot about which pup will look like as an adult. An experienced breeder who keeps up with breeder forums is on top of these things.

Anyway, my two cents on aspects that should be considered.

Might as well continue to look for breeders that charge less -- they aren't all the same cost, and it's worth a longer drive in my opinion.

[Susan]

I loved the beautiful puppies I saw from the breeders on the site here! And I have no doubt that they were quality dogs. But I waited and am lucky to have found a wonderful rescue who fits in with our family perfectly. iDog is wonderful and I highly recommend using them if you don't mind a dog that is not a young puppy. It worked for me!

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

I completely agree with Adina. Rescuing a doodle is wonderful and does not support anyone,but the dog. Buying from anyone, even someone very nice, supports that person in their breeding. I really believe in buying only from families who take breeding seriously, i.e. do the testing, guarantee their dogs, research genetics, do not repeat what looked like a good breeding, but was not, and on and on.

In addition to all this groundwork a family that is a good source of a puppy will put hundreds of KNOWLEDGEABLE hours of work into each litter before it leaves its first home. Those weeks of work are also what you are paying for: early socialization, early introduction of different environments, early potty training. Just to name one thing - it is recommended that every puppy experience a minimum of 7 surfaces (repeatedly and for more than just a second to stand on it) before 8 weeks. This kind of socialization and teaching is what will bring you the possibility of a "great family pet". (Not to mention easy potty training!)

Can you get a great family pet from the pound, a bad breeder, or a puppy mill? Absolutely, but you will need a good eye for puppies,and great deal of good luck plus the money for a vet if something goes really wrong. A Siberian Husky from a reputable breeder would probably only be about $800. It is almost as difficult to purchase a Sibe from a good breeder as it is to adopt a child. More Siberians end up as rescues than any other breed, they are beautiful and make excellent family pets ( if you don't mind the dog hair!), but they can really be a handful. So to buy one from a serious breeder you have to prove your ability and commitment to training and keeping the puppy. Doodles are "in" and that has driven the price way up. Doodles are easy to train, often shed little or not at all, and are allergy friendly, but they are still puppies and puppies are work, however fun. A good breeder should be asking you as many questions as you ask them.

I always seem to be long winded, but the final answer is you have had two pound puppies with success, if you want a doodle, unless you rescue one, you are going to have to pay for it. And as with most things, you get what you pay for.

[Chris & Boys]

You don't always get what you pay for. A friend of mine got thier GD from a "reputable breeder" . They gave, and still do give health guarentees, great advice, etc. The perfect breeder.

"XXXX Goldendoodles is a small, caring breeder of Goldendoodle puppies, xxxxxxxxxxxxx. We have been dedicated to uniting very special dogs with loving, responsible owners for more than 10 years. We are committed to raising healthy puppies for people who desire to add a loving pet to their families. From their website: (not word for word)

Our puppies are raised in a loving home environment and socialized with our family. Our puppies are handled from the moment they are born, which helps to set the foundation for a wonderful family companion that will provide your family with many years of love, joy, companionship and fun."

Well, they have over 70 kennels. The dogs are shown in a different bldg than the area where they are kennelled. The dogs are given a full warranty, etc, etc. I don't think they are being raised as it is portrayed. And how happy can those dogs be? When do they go from breeder to puppy mill? 70 kennels, 150 kennels, 3800 kennels? How can they be family raised when they have 70 kennels??

I have a wonderful PB GR that came from a family breeder. It came with a letter from their vet that both parents were free from any health issues and were both hip tested. My GR is now 14 years old and the only problem he has had until the last year is having to have a tooth pulled that got broken by a Nylabone. I KNOW that the parents were happy and healthy and loved. That means more to me .........but that is just my opinion.

Either way, buyer beware.

[Sandy]

To add to what Adina said - we purchased Toby from a small, family breeder. They were loving, caring people, who did not live in a fancy house. They raised the puppies in the house. Toby cost about half of what other breeders were asking. BUT - they did provide us with written health guarantees of the parents, and for the puppy. In fact, when Toby had his neutering done and one testicle had to be "found" (inguinal), the breeder sent me a cheque for the extra cost of the surgery. They enjoy updates and pictures when we send them, and always reply. They send out Christmas cards to the puppy and family. AND - if for any reason someone cannot keep their puppy, they want it back. So I think we found a small family breeder who was very responsible. I guess the key is - do your homework.

[Adina P]

Yeah, I don't think it's a matter of family vs. big breeder....it's a matter of supporting a responsible process vs. a less responsible one. And by the way, I honestly don't think families who decide to breed their dogs are bad, evil, or out to hurt anyone.

[Kyoko]

I got Charlie from somewhat similar, family breeder. Most important thing for me was that, I will be able to visit the breeder, parents and puppies before I made any decision. I wanted to see the environment where parents and puppies are living in, what type of people that breeder seems to be, etc....
They welcomed us for our visit, and dogs were raised at home with their 5 children. They continue to communicate with me via e~mail throught the process. I still comminicate with her, and she enjoys my story about Charlie and her picture. She said that her children enjoy seeing and hearing about her growing up. And the cost was reasonable and affordable for me.

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

OK here is my opinion which may cause some people to yell at me but "oh well'.

#1 of importance never support a puppy mill. These people have no scruples. So you have to make sure this "family" is really what they say they are. If they are just a small beackyard breeder breeding their own 2 family dogs...thats ok imo.

I personally went through a very reputable, well-known breeder and paid a high price with the genetic testing, health guarantee, vet checks, dewormings, first shots, spay, crate include...and all that.

Now here is the part I may get spanked for but my cynical side says it is pretty easy to throw out "health guarantee 2 yr" when what are the odds of any animal having a health problem in the first 2 yrs anyways. Catch my drift? It is a guarantee that most people can make without having to pay up because of it. Kind of like appliances bragging they have a free 1 yr warranty, ya well what's going to go wrong that soon? Most problems are a little older than that. Now if they gave a lifetime money back guarantee....;o)

If my next door neighbor here had a poodle and a retriever and had a litter of puppies I would be confident to take one.

[Adina P]

I agree that 2 years is gonna miss some things that tend to develop later, but it also catches quite a few things too. I know of a handful of breeders who are giving 3 year health guarantees and one doodle breeder planning to provide a lifetime guarantee for things she tests for. In my case the health guarantee paid for Rosco's eye surgery and for some it will pay for part of the cost of hip surgery. I think it's at the 2 year mark because that is what got popular...

My concern is while $2,300 is more than I'd pay for a doodle...$600 is a LOT to pay for a puppy bred for the heck of it..with no studying of what is required behind a responsible breeding. I don't think it's immoral for a family to breed their dog, but it's not very responsible.

To me testing isn't about guaranteed good health but about a breeder being responsible and putting thought and effort into their choice to breed. Doesn't matter if it's a family breeding their pets or a big breeder with multiple breeding dogs.

The only benefit of a family is that most likely the pups will be better socialized than those of a puppy mill and their dogs are loved.