Help for fighting doodles

[Cynthia Whitfield]

Hi. This is Cynthia, Simba's mom. I've been meaning to get on here and tell you about the new puppy, Yoda we adopted from the same breeder. He is almost ten weeks old (another ALD). They have the same dad, but different moms.

We are having trouble because 14-month-old Simba wants to take everything away from Yoda and stockpile it, even when presented with the options to play with all his own favorite toy. Sharing would also be fine with me, but Simba doesn't like that either. He leans heavily against Yoda which makes Yoda fall and Yoda barks and growls at him. The only thing they play okay with is a long braided rope for tug of war. They won't leave each other alone.

Has anyone gotten a big exercise pen to help with this? We figure they could take turns in there with some toys and a chewy if they are making us nervous with the rough play.

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

My dogs play rough with each other. Seriously, sometimes you would think they were killing each other. They make lots of noise, etc., but the few times I intervene they go right back at it when I let go of whomever I was intervening for. I think if both of them seem to be going back for more, they are playing. You also can not change the pack order. They will decide who is top dog and sometimes it turns out to be the second dog. They are feeling their oats and figuring out things and I would, for the most part, let them work it out and if things seem to be escalating to where you are very uncomfortable, give them both a time out to cool down. Our youngest dog always wants whatever Fudge has at the time. As soon as she drops it, he runs right in and steals it from her. They have worked all this out and eventually, Fudge figures out a way to trick him and get it back. Dogs play rough and it can be very noisy. I wouldn't separate them, unless absolutely necessary, but work hard to let them work it out between them.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I've had the same experience with my two.  I have one standard and one mini....and the standard is a pushy guy.  They play rough, but my little one has figured out how to "attack quickly" and then run under the bed where his brother can't get to him.  I swear he's laughing at him from under there.  He also takes the toys under the bed while Murphy just paces around, totally frustrated that he can't get to them.  Yes, they do work it all out in their own way.

[Adina P]

Dogs don't really share the human concept of 'sharing' (heck even human kids don't have that concept).  Since the puppy is new, it will take a while for the two to settle into life together.  Most rough play is normal, you'll start to get the hang of when they are playing vs. when they are fighting (which hopefully won't happen at all).

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Someone show a dog playing video.

I agree with Laurie.  It sounds so disturbing and wild.   It looks that way too. Teeth showing, ear tugging, stealing toys.  UGH.

It sounds like they are playing.

[Nicky, Riley & Boris]

They aren't fighting. Sounds like normal playtime. We have teeth, pushing, stealing and the odd squeal! If it gets too wild just put them in time out once in a while and other than that I'd leave well alone as they work out the pecking order.

[Kaitee and Orwell]

Unless you get constant yelping from the new guy, I wouldn't worry. My neighbors had a beagle and a huge 120+ lbs mutt (chow chow and probably mastiff). They played rough all the time, but no one got seriously hurt. When the beagle died, they got a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel... it took Harley (big guy) a while to accept the new puppy, but he never seriously hurt her either. 

Let them work their boundaries out and I'm sure things will start to look a bit more diplomatic. 

[Emily, Bentley, & Maserati]

When Bentley & Maserati start playing it sounds intense. Bentley has always been very vocal when he plays. He has good body language as does Maserati and they lots wrestling with each other. Earlier this evening Mazi was running circles around Bentley barking in his face. Bentley started batting Mazi with his paws and growling/barking back. The next thing we heard was "thud." Bentley had body slammed Maserati to the floor and was standing over him. Both dogs were wagging tails and having a good time as M got up and right back at it they went. They are now snuggled up on the dog bed together sleeping. 

I agree with the others that they seem like they're just figuring out their playful dynamics. I wouldn't separate them! 

[Donna Bay & Buzz]

Our dogs "ruff" play too. The sounds that come from them...some might find it disturbing or dangerous but honestly, they are just having fun. I rarely break them up. They figure out when they've had enough. Only time I stop them is if one jumps on the furniture to get away from the other. No reason my couch should get torn up while they burn up their energy!

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

I agree with what everyone here has said about the playing.  It can be crazy.  I asked this same question when Lucy and Sophie were puppies.  They would play so rough I'd swear they were going to kill each other.  Unless I heard yelping I was told, just let them go.  After we lost Sophie and little AnnaBelle came into the picture at 5 lbs to join in the play with Lucy who was 82 and Honey (our foster girl at the time) was 55 it created a different scenario.  Lucy hated her and I thought at times might consider eating her and Honey loved her and AnnaBelle loved them both.  AnnaBelle and Honey played like crazy.  I would monitor their play very closely.  Even though Honey was very gentle with her AnnaBelle was relentless and would just continuously come back for more.  During this time I did have an ex-pen.  It wasn't so much to separate them so they could play, it was just if I wasn't able to mediate all the growling with Lucy and the play with Honey, then AnnaBelle went in the ex-pen for a little while to play with her toys.  I would say the ex-pen was more for my sanity than for the doodles.

[Julie, Eloise & Beasley]

I also agree with everyone's comments.  I only intervened between Eloise and Beasley when I felt like play was getting *too* rough, and that was more for my peace of mind, because puppy Beasley never let up.  Even if there was a yelp, I let them figure out what their boundaries were, and the other backed off when that happened (I was prepared to step in if the aggressor didn't back off after the yelp). E was always pretty gentle with B, but it was hard to see the near-60 lb doodle slam into the then-8 lb doodle when they got really riled up.  And it was REALLY hard to see Eloise get cuts underneath her eyes from Beasley's razor teeth because she was constantly play-biting at her face, and I was scared to death she was going to hit E's eye.  If it felt too intense, I stepped in - but generally I just let them work it out. 

Beasley (the puppy) is a toy stealer, so mine is the opposite situation.  Eloise is not assertive with Beasley 99% of the time, so Beasley steals from Eloise whatever toy, whenever she wants.  The worst is the antler.  Beasley walks right up and takes the antler from Eloise's mouth/grip WHILE she is chewing.  And Eloise just lets her, which frustrates me because I hate to see the puppy get away with that, but I figure it's their deal.  Occasionally I tell Beasley "no" and redirect her (and I take the antler from B and return it to E), but she usually just steals it from Eloise again.

[Cynthia Whitfield]

Thanks everyone for all your input. I'll keep it all in mind and see how it goes. What does it mean when Simba - the older dog grabs at the puppy's neck and essentially keeps the puppy belly up for most of the play session? Yoda starts to growl and snap and eventually catches one of Simba's ears and pulls. Simba puts his butt right in Yoda's face and backs him down, leans heavily on him, and gets Yoda back down belly up. Yoda growls.

Individually Yoda is very easy going, much more than Simba ever was. Simba used to bite hard enough to draw blood when we tried to play with him. Yoda has a much softer mouth and is more content with less aggressive games except when Simba is around. I guess I am scared Simba is changing Yoda's personality!

[Donna Bay & Buzz]

All i can add is that our trainer couldnt stress enough that dog teeth to human skin is never okay. Ever. Correct that right away or you could face problems down the road. Even during plan. Its a no-no! Let them work it out. Ear biting, neck grabbing. All normal play. Your gut will know when its not.