How much is too much to spend on a doodle?

[Jodi Edsall]

I spent $1200 for Bailey and she is a great dog. A year later, I spent $186 on Murphy and he is a great dog. Both are loved members of our family. But my husband still reminds me that $1200 was a lot. I just inquired about a goldendoodle that was advertised (acturally there are three of them and they are 17 weeks old). The breeder said that they were originally $2300 but since they are getting older that he has lowered the price to $1800. Does anyone else think that is a lot to spend?

[RIDOODLES]

I dont think that is the question , if you really want adoodle, i think the question shoudl be "How much Time & Effort are you willing to put in to find that perfect doodle".

Foe people new at researching the breed here are some tips:

Find out where the pup is coming from, better yet, VISIT the breeders home.
If you live in such a remote area and cannot find a doodle within driving distance , discuss waranty in detail wit your breeder if you are having one flown in. A responsible breeder will work very closely with your needs & wants.

We had to travel 8 hours to get our 2nd doodle....Our first one died after we had him for only 5 days..he came to us with Parvo....it was so devestating....

A pet store or kennell that sells many different variety of dogs whould not be where you want to be to obtain your doodle. A price is set on doodles that is becoming very high...do your homework, ask questions, find a small breeder and review their warranty, ask them to email it to you before your purchase. Do you want a sick dog, a dog you will have to spend thousands on after you purchase & fall in love? It has happened to many who have purchased a pup very quickly from these sources.

One last thing to consider...if you meet a nice small breeder , visit their home, are satisfied with the answers they give you , be thank ful that you met a wonderful person, family , breeder, that has the best interest of the doodle in mind to "Better" the breed. This should be the "primary" goal of any well intentioned doodle breeder. One that ensures health testing, one that has primary health of the breeding dogs, as well as the pups in mind.

So if you choose to spend a few hundred on a rescue or thousands , take your time & please do your homework first...look for red flags....

[Lorraine Bromley]

I have seen all the discussions on what a breeder spends to provide the best prepared puppy to the end owner. But that being said why is it that Doodles are from 1200 and up when CKC registered Pure Breeds are alot less money. The pure breds have all the same testing ect as the doodle breeders and more information and conformation than a doodle breeder can ever get. I don't understand that the popularity of a dog is the basis of cost. I think that by pricing high because they are popular is not doing alot for the breed as there will be a limit as to what people will be willing to pay for so long and then when breeders are left with older pups that they have to discount people will assume they aren't the best of the litters. Then when this economy catches up thier prices will have to come down and people will say well I know someone who paid 1200 a couple of years ago. I wouldn't buy from someone selling for 700 something must be wrong with the dogs or they don't health test ect.
Most pure breds are priced at a decent price making room for the best care for the dogs and the profit for the breeders to be able to pursue their love for the animals and pay their expenses.

[Adina P]

CKC or AKC? Typically the 'Top' breeders in the pure breed world are AKC registered (unless you mean CKC as in Canada).

The way I look at it is even $200 is a RIP OFF if someone is selling dogs they bred on purpose without health testing and without responsible breeding based on knowledge of the lines they are breeding. Nice family or not...breeding done casually is not worth paying for, in MY eyes.

[Lorraine Bromley]

I don't know if I didn't make my post clear as you seem to think I was making a negative statement.
I am just curious if breeders (CKC is Canadian) breed top of the line pure breds and produce great animals and charge xxx amount of dollars and Doodle Breeders who do the same breeding practices as the top Registered Pure Bred breeders do and charge double or triple the cost of a Registered breed with more documentation and history and less inconsistency in the breed why would a breeder do that when the cost to both breeders would be the same?
And in the long run is the pricing by the breeders going to have a negative affect on the breed. Is it going to hurt the doodle quality as every body and their brother want to breed these for the money$$$ then they turn into rescues from these back yard breeders and the breed suffers and gets negative word of mouth causing more doodle haters?
I don't think any breeder takes money from another breeder as once a person chooses a breed its only the competition between that particular breeds breeders and than that should be based on what you get that you feel provides you with the best puppy you can get
. I agree with Adina 100 percent as well.
Short question why do doodles cost more than pure breds? Is it right?
I guess I shouldn't type what I am contemplating and not decided on in my brain. And just stick to the simple questions. I did not mean to upset you guys

[Adina P]

Not upset at all :) But headed to bed and will pipe in more tomorrow :)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

"Is it going to hurt the doodle quality as every body and their brother want to breed these for the money$$$ then they turn into rescues from these back yard breeders and the breed suffers"
This is what I have been saying for a long time. The best purebred breeders do not breed for money, ever. They produce very few litters, maybe one a year, and only because they have a dog who is such an outstanding example of the breed that it would be a crime for those genes not to be passed down. And IMO, that is the only reason anyone should be bringing more dogs into the world. The responsible breeding of dogs was never meant to be a way to support a family; it has traditionally been an attempt to produce the healthiest, most perfect ___________ the world has ever seen.
But I am talking here about champion purebreds; breeders whose websites do not even hint at prices and who are very, very choosey about who gets one of their pups. You can certainly find purebreds on internet puppy mill websites for $300-600, but for the kind of dog I'm talking about, you would pay much, much more. And you would get health certifications on every dog on both sides of the pedigree for five generations back, and for all previous pups as well, even half-siblings.

[Adina P]

That is the going thing I've read too. That the TOP pure breed ____ breeders are PURELY hobby breeders in that they happen to have a lot of extra money and breeding, showing, competing is how they spend their extra money/hobby time. And they breed only occasionally when it seems it would be a REALLY good idea.

Now, I don't believe this is the one and only way to do things and my opinion is that if someone can do a responsible job of breeding quality pets AND they can make money doing this...more power to them! BUT it is important to remember to compare apples to apples. You will NOT get a TOP QUALITY champion pure bred for a few hundred bucks.

If anyone has time to look into this I'd love to see the cost of the average lab puppy (as pet) compared to the average golden retriever puppy (as pet) compared to the average poodle puppy (as pet) compared to the average F1 doodle (pet) puppy coming ONLY from breeders who have proof of hip & eye testing on parents and DNA testing with a comparable health warranty. Anyone wanna take up this research? If so be sure to get a broad sample from around the USA.

Ultimately I believe value is in the eye of the beholder. I'm a free market kinda gal who thinks if the market bears a price...it's a good price. The issue for me, when it comes to living creatures, is about whether they are being made to the high standards they are worthy of. Price fluctuates, but high breeding standards shouldn't.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The problem with trying to do this kind of research on purebreds is that I don't know what the "average" poodle puppy (as pet) would be. My last dog was a "pet quality" pup from the top champion miniature poodle breeder in the country at the time; she had all the same certs as the show quality pup in her litter, and she was available on a breeding contract if I had wanted to do that, but she was not show quality because of minor deviations from what is considered 'perfect' conformation...rump a bit too square, that kind of thing. I paid $500 for her, on a spay contract with limited registration, and that was 20 years ago.
The point is, would she be considered "average"?

[Adina P]

Well I guess lumped in with 10 other breeder prices...she would factor into the 'average'--so if someone just did an average PRICE vs. average puppy that would work too. But good point. I think what I meant by average--is NOT the highest end puppy with parents of 10 championships a year...but JUST a poodle breeder that does testing (etc) compared with a doodle breeder that does testing (etc). Doing the best possible comparison of 'like to 'like' as far as what is offered in the purchase.

[Nina, Phil, Harlow & Lacey]

I am not upset though I am not sure why you keep saying doodles cost more than purebreds. BC I was an owner/breeder/handler of English Setters and Pointers. Even as far back as the 1970’s the price for these ‘show quality’ beauties was in the 4 figure range (US $). If you watch any of the dog shows on APL you will more often than not hear the commentator say “co-owned by Mr/Ms W and Mr/Ms X (and sometimes Mr/Ms Y & Z)”. Pups from renowned hunting lines are even pricier. There are both reputable purebred and doodles breeders out there that are striving to breed the closest they can to perfection to the breed standard. No matter how detailed the research of bloodlines and study of genetics for desired traits, every litter throws a ‘pet quality’ pup or two. It has been my experience that these pups may or may not be offered at a lower price point. That being said, there are also those breeders out there, both purebred and doodles, that breed strictly for the $$ (otherwise there would be no such thing as puppy mills). You just have to open any newspaper to the classified section to find AKC or CKC registered pups offered at very low price points. Just because the pups are recognized and can be registered does not make them quality bred. Just look at what has happened with breeds such as the German Sheppard, Shar Pei and other pure breed dogs that become popular with the general population. The price points vary wildly.
BTW, it has been my experience that very few of the top breeders have buckets of money lying around to spend on showing, breeding and competing. Many of them work ‘day jobs’ to support their passion for the breed they love. Walk into their homes and you will see carpet/furniture that best days are now ancient history or their automobiles have long ago turned over 100K on the odometer because they choose to spend money on perfecting the breed they love.

[Richard Crowe]

"They produce very few litters, maybe one a year, and only because they have a dog who is such an outstanding example of the breed that it would be a crime for those genes not to be passed down."

This is both true and untrue. Many of our purebred dogs have been ruined by over breeding and close breeding to accentuate or keep certain desirable (in the eyes of show people) qualities.

As an example, look at the German Shepherd Dog who has been bred so that it has a sloping top-line and a shorter rear end. This has resulted in a breed renowned for hip dysplasia.

Judy and I have bred pure-bred Maltese for Many years until we became disenchanted at the way show people have ruined the health of that wonderful breed. Originally, Maltese were stout and robust dogs that weighed around ten pounds. Today, you could never win at a confirmation show if your Maltese is much over five pounds. This reduction in breed size has been accomplished by breeding the runt of the litter to another runt - often with extreme inbreeding. This has resulted in many anomalies which are present in the breed such as Liver Shunts and serious knee problems.

Show Maltese are bred for small size, pretty faces and luxurious coats - the heck with anything unimportant such as health.

We have a champion Maltese who was the epitome of what a show Maltese should look like. The little guy was perfect in almost all aspect, except one. He would kick butt at dog shows but, would produce at least one puppy in every litter he sired that had severe liver shunt problems. These puppies had to be put down because they could not make the transition from mother's milk to solid food.

When, after he sired several litters, we pin-pointed that it was his genes causing the problem, we neutered him. There were several breeders who were indignant and one said, "How could you neuter a male who produced such beautiful puppies. Having to put puppies down is just one of the facts of life in breeding!" Sure, his puppies were beautiful but, they were also genetically flawed and we darn well did not want to carry on that gene pool. He is living with us as a happy pet now.

Unfortunately, the need to put puppies down due to genetic problems doesn't matter to some (many?) breeders who simply aim for AKC championships with no thought or care regarding the health and betterment of the breed. Besides winning AKC Championships which is ego fulfilling for many breeders, a tiny-tiny maltese with a cutsie-pie face can bring some exceptionally big bucks. Two to five thousand dollars is pretty common and our friend sold a male maltese for twenty-thousand dollars. He was the top Maltese in the country for several years running and took the Breed at Westminster Dog how two years in a row. He was also genetically flawed and could not produce healthy puppies.

The ego lure of an AKC Championship is very important to some breeders. The dog's name changes from a name like "ABC Kennel's Rover of the Valley" to, "Champion ABC Kennel's Rover of the Valley". Producing champions is like winning a Super Bowl ring for many breeders. There is also the financial incentive. The smallest (and consequentially least healthy) Maltese bring the highest prices.

Our rescue Maltese, Sweetie, who was found wandering the streets abandoned or lost is one of the healthiest Maltese we have known and her puppies seem to take after her in the area of general health. They are not the "perfect show Maltese". They are far from that! Their confirmation is not what a show Maltese should look like and their faces would not win any Maltese beauty contest. However, as far as general health and disposition goes, they are super dogs.

This is one of many reasons that we opted to get a Goldendoodle from a responsible breeder.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Richard, if you're going to quote me, please keep it in the context I used. You left out the sentence "The best purebred breeders"... which is what I am referring to when I talk about my experiences with purebreds and showdogs.
If you have ever seen a champion German Shepherd do field or tracking trials, or search and rescue work, or police work, you know that it is absolute nonsense to say that they have been ruined by "overbreeding" or breeding for certain traits. How do you suppose those dogs climbed the towers of rubble at the WTC after 911? Those were mostly SAR dogs from champion lines. In fact, top champion GSD's have little to NO HD in the lines, because it would absolutely ruin the kennel's reputation, and all the dogs are carefully screened to avoid having any HD in the lines. You are far more likely to find HD in an ordinary "pet" breeder's pups than in the Champion dogs. Since movement is a big part of the judging in competition, it's common sense that those dogs with the "sloping" hind ends have no problems moving freely and beautifully, or they couldn't compete.
The poodle breeders from whom I would buy a dog are interested in a lot more than looks...their dogs are titled not just in conformation but also hold Utility Dog titles...you would be hard pressed to find healthier dogs of any breed. The breeders I am talking about wouldn't dream of breeding a dog with genetic issues such as you describe, or putting looks above health. There is absolutely no line-breeding or inbreeding done, and the dogs are bred for solid temperament and outgoing personalities. Again, these are the TOP houses, not just any poodle breeder who shows their dogs.
My poodle lived to be 16 and never had a sick day. She housebroke in a day and a half and slept thru the night in her crate without a peep from day 1. I had none of the training or behavior issues I read about people here having with doodle puppies on a daily basis. I never had her teeth cleaned in her entire life, and when she died, every tooth was gleaming white and firmly anchored to the bone. Her coat stayed the jet black color it was when I got her at 8 weeks, and so did her nose, lol. She was outgoing, friendly, afraid of nothing, and a joy for her entire life.
I can't speak for Maltese, although my mother had one who was a nasty tempered yappy thing who was impossible to housebreak and came from a "family breeder", but I think you would agree that it would be wrong of me to judge every Maltese or every "family" breeder" by that one dog. I think it's time to stop making generalizations or passing along antiquated beliefs about all purebred breeders, too.
I agree with you that there are idiots who breed any kind of dog for money alone, but the TOP breeders do not.