Lincoln was too rough at play outside again

[Diane Denney]

Hi Folks,

My dog Lincoln has had extreme mouthing issues since we've had him. I have worked diligently on this by using all the suggested advice that man kind could give me. Mostly putting him in his crate when he doesn't play well has been the best, but I haven't really gone outside in the backyard with him as that is where he just goes out of control grabbing our clothes and tugging and biting. This is not aggressive behavior, but he just doesn't get it. He sees me as a big chew play toy. This morning I decided to step outside with him and he was like whoa wait a minute and off he went trying to pull on my coat sleeves etc... I ended up with a tooth in my thumb and a blood blister while trying to wrestle him to a posturing position. I was so angry!!! I don't want to be but his behavior is making me mad. I thought by now that he would have come around from this as he'll be a year old in two weeks. I have stopped him from doing this in the house. Every now and again he tries to push the envelope, but the inside rough play has wiened down to almost nil except that he still is not leaving my older dog alone, and so that is stressful. I'm working on that too, and I think he's finally getting it. He has been in training since he was a puppy and plays with a Pitt Bull in class all the time. He is a sweet dog, and I just need some support because it really disappointed me this morning to have him behave that way still outside with me. I think when I go outside I need to put him on a gentle leader to let him know I'm boss outside too. I also have made a mistake lately by playing a bit of tug with him inside as he seemed to get a little better. Of course I'm really scared of this behavior, but I know he's still a puppy, but his teeth hurt!!!! I'm looking for someone who's had a similar situation to give me some tips and support.

[LG & Sadie]

How old is Lincoln?

[LG & Sadie]

Ooops sorry-I see his age in your post! I know for us with Sadie we had to run her often during her first year and a half......if she wasn't tired/ or depleted of the puppy energy she would usually comply with commands-but tended to act as if it was optional to obey....it was almost as if the tank of energy was too full for her to listen and respond...once she drained a little excess she could focus better. Much like a child with ADHD now that I think about it....Sadie had the tools, but didn't always use them-so, we made sure she wanted to use them by getting her the kind of romp time she needed. It was a lot and very tough to arrange some days. She also responded well to romps with other dogs-playdates, or daycare. Another word of caution is a trainer told us not to use a crate as a sort of punishment time out as it will then have negatives attached to it.....this trainer said the crate needs to be there safe place....or it can be a time out place.....but, not both. Also-I am far, far, far from an expert! Good luck!!!!!

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

I always start these type answers by saying, "I'm no expert", but am just sharing the things I've learned, and things our instructor has told us. Keep in mind, every instructor has different ways of teaching. There are 3 things that come to mind to me when reading your post: (1) Our instructor told us from the very beginning, Do Not Play Tug of War with them, as this encourages rough behavior. (2) It really sounds like Lincoln is not getting enough exercise and is just totally full of way too much energy. I'm talking off leash, run until he can't run anymore type of exercise. not a couple of 45 min walks each day. and (3), it doesn't really sounds like he thinks you are the Pack Leader. Is there a Doggie Daycare or PlayGroup in your area where you can take him a few times a week, or a dog park where he could run with other dogs. Not sure if you have a fenced yard or not for him to play in, and I realize even sometimes when there isn't another dog or person out there they don't want to play there either. However, by one year it seems a little unusual that he would still be this out of control. Have you taken any formalized training or have you been trying to just do it on your own through the advice from others. If you haven't done any formal training, I would definitely get into some classes and get a handle on this. That would be my suggestions (1) lots and lots of exercise and (2) some formal training.

[Diane Denney]

Lincoln is in a formal intermediate training class and has been for many weeks now and will be for another 7. We are working on this with the trainer. He is allowing Lincoln to play with the Pitt Bull for extra time to try and train his bite inhibition. He is a spaz at times!! He is not getting alot of exercise these days because we've had nothing but snow snow and more snow along with very cold weather, but he runs free in our backyard as we have a fence. Our back yard is really big, and he runs one end of it to the other. This dog does not seem to tire easy.

Regarding Lincoln and his crate. He loves his crate even though that is a place for time out when he is not playing well. We recently let him out of his crate while we went out to the store (he's safely gated in the kitchen) just to see how he does as he has sleeps outside of his crate all evening, and when we came back he was in his crate anyway!! LOL I'm not angry when I put him in his crate. I'm just firm.

I have put Lincoln in daycare a couple of times, but not recently. He was always so dirty after,

I'm just surprized that he is still that hyper at 11 months old, but I've heard heard that once they hit one you can see a change. I'm hoping so!!!

[BG and Gavin]

I would keep him on a leash outside when you are with him. Even if you let go of the leash to send him to fetch or whatever, it gives you a quick handle to grab if/when you need to correct him.

[Diane Denney]

I like this idea as that is what I think I'll have to do until he realizes that he can't play that way outside with me. BTW I can't let him outside with my older dog either as he is too rough with him as well.

[Natasha]

Great advice!

1) agree - more draining of energy - the doggy daycare idea is a good one.

2) on-leash outside for the next few weeks is a great idea.

3) I would add that, after draining some energy, take 5 minutes to train outside each day. Start with on-leash. Some simple sits, downs, stays with food treats will work wonders. You seem to hint that you think that he's not respecting you outside. Training will help with that.

Is it possible that he was taken away from the litter before 8 weeks? Mouthy behavior beyond the first year is often traced back to not having the pack explain to him that he's behaving in an unacceptably rough manner.

Don't worry - you're on the right track. I totally understand that frustration that you're feeling. Work through it, collect yourself, and get your calm, strong self back and then take him right back out there and start some training so he sees that you are in control and you're willing to reward him for good behavior.

[Diane Denney]

Thank you Natasha!! It is very possible that he came from a puppy mill and was taken away much too early. I first saw him when he was about two months old which is 8 weeks, and I don't really know how many siblings he had. I adopted him when he was about 4 months, and he was left in a cage alone alot up until that point. I spoke to the breeder about his behavior but all she said was that it sounded like he was trying to be the Alpha. I'll keep working on it!!! I do definitely need to re group!!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

To the excellent advice already given, I would add: No more playing "tug" ever, indoors or out, at home or away, period. It's either okay to grab a piece of soft material (rope, fabric, etc) and pull, or it's not. The dog can't distinguish between your clothing and a tug toy in your hand. Allowing this type of play at certain times but not others is what is called "intermittent reinforcement' in the language of psychology, and it has been shown that there is no type of conditioning that is harder to "unlearn" than the conditioned responses produced by intermittent reinforcement.

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

Both Tigger and Roo have been mouthy dogs. It often goes with retreiver/spaniel dogs.

I taught Roo fairly young to hold a large zogoflex bone in his mouth when he greeted me, played with me etc. It did not take long for him to "get bone" because then I would pay attention to him. At going on two and a half Roo still goes for his bone a lot on his own but is completely non mouthy even without it. So not quite one is probably a little optimistic.

Tigger at 21 months still "gets bone" luckily because he is still extremely mouthy on occasion in just the way you describe. In excitement grabbing clothes, hands, whatever. He was much calmer as a young puppy, but is somewhat slower to "grow up" than Roo, maybe as much as six months slower.

Lastly, don't feel bad at all because Lincoln behaved differently outside than inside. Dogs generalize very poorly. Even a different surface can really change the behavior of a highly trained dog. If you always train your dog in sunny weather, (like a I do as a spoiled So CA resident) that dog will seem like he has forgotten everything he ever knew the first time you take him out in the rain! As far as the dog is concerned new environment - new rules!

Take heart, it sounds like you have had great success inside. Outside will go much faster!

[Debbie and Thomas]

My doodle was the biter of all biters! We too were getting angry about it. He was not being aggressive, just a real pain in the butt. Any kind of play turned into a bleeding incident for one of us. He was the sweetest puppy...he just HAD to bite at us. It all turned around after I signed him up for a group dog run. He started going three days a week on this run with a dog walker and 9 or 10 other dogs. He ran in a ravinelike dog park with his pack and guess what...no more biting!! He seemed more content and relaxed and has become the greatest sweetest boy that we adore. I am almost afraid to get another puppy as I do not want to go thru that stage ever again. We did all the dog training imaginable and he was the star of the class. The running really turned things around for us. I also know that they do grow out of this...some unfortunately later than others. Try saying "NO teeth" every time and walk away. He'll get it!

[Diane Denney]

BTW I can TOTALLY understand you not wanting to do the puppy thing again!! The funny thing is is that I think I said that after Scottie grew up. I guess the farther away it gets the more we forget. I don't think I'll forget this one. Maybe I'll get an already grown up dog next time!!! LOL