NEUTER QUESTION!!!

[Chels*Claud*Midas]

Hey guys! i have a question.. i have a 6 month old goldendoodle puppy.. i have posted before about his mouthing issues and nipping my husband and i. my husband wanted to wait to neuter him until about 1 year old.. because he heard it can stunt his growth and the size of his head. but this mouthing thing is driving us crazy! does neutering a puppy calm them down a little? is that really true? what was your personal experiance? thanks xoxo  

[Richard Crowe]

Neutering "might" help but firm and constant training is the best ticket to a ride with a well behaved dog.  There are some dogs who can be prevented from nipping more easily than others.  I have a hunch that the nipping is more prevalent and more difficult to stop in a dog with an Alpha Personality.

 

Dogs establish the pecking order (or we could call it the "nipping order") in the litter by nipping their litter mates.  You don't want your doodle to establish itself as the Alpha in your litter (your family).  It is very important to "nip" the nipping (pun intended) in the bud.

 

Our Goldendoodle, Holly, doesn't have an Alpha bone in her body.  A few scolds and a few gentle taps on the nose were all that was needed to stop her from nipping.  However, I have lived with other dogs who were somewhat more hard headed.  Terriers, particularly, seem to have minds of their own...

 

A very good but, non-violent deterrent to almost any unwanted behavior is usually a couple of coins in an empty soda can. Shaking the can as the dog is exibiting the unwanted behavior will most often stop that behavior.  I would guess that it would work equally well for nipping dogs...

 

In fact, we had a Maltese male who had started to zero in on the brickwork on our fireplace to lift his leg.  We caught him in the act and threw the can not at him but close to him.   It scared the devil out of him and we placed the coke can in his favorite spot for a couple of weeks until that spot was not longer on his radar for leg lifting.

 

Electronic trainng collars can be effective deterrents but, they must be used with utmost caution and I really don't like them.

And, as Joanne mentioned about Spud, exercise is a great way to calm down some excitable dogs.  But, sometimes it just tires the owners.  Holly does a lot of running in our acre yard with her Maltese buddies when the weather is cool but doesn't like to run around when it is hot.  To tell you the truth, I don't see a great difference in her behavior when she exercises or when she stays in our air conditioned house for most of the day. 

[Chels*Claud*Midas]

thank u! .. the thing about Midas is he is VERY resiliant.. nothing stops him lol.. can of coins..he wanted to play with it.. water bottle spray..loved it! hotsauce on him hands..loved it.. press his tounge.. doesnt care.. yelp..nope.. leave the room..he will play with something else.. the only thing that works is bitter apple spray which i shake the bottle at him and he walks away..but the thing is, i dont want him walking away i want to play and pet him.. from the moment he wakes up in our bed..his mouth his around my arm.. i dont know what his deal is.. he even lifts his lips when he goes to bite...he is playing..but it is verryy annoying..  :(

[Joani, Skadi & Elli]

with the lip lifting, make sure you educate yourself on resource guarding...once again it has taken me still to this day to work with my doodle and her resource guarding.  I was told by a trainer it's genetics and will maybe never go away.  But I work diligently to change her lip lifting and low growl...it is working, but I had NO idea puppies were such work!  But today, I would take a dood over any other breed...she's a love.  Good luck with your boy Midas...and DON'T give up, you will reap the benefits...soon mom, soon.  I know it's hard not to cuddle them I hated that too.

[Chels*Claud*Midas]

hey ! i want to thank u sooo much because u have given me SUCH hope...and that there IS a light at the end of this tunnel! lol what is resource guarding? i will google it also... hehe...Midas literally prefers my hand and arm over any toy...except  a bully stick lol.. the weird thing is he doesnt care if i take the bully stick or any toy away from him..he never growls or anything...but if hes laying down and i go to snuggle and pet him he start getting ready to play and his play consists of him biting my arms.. my husband has been putting his finger down his throat a little.. more like down his tounge..and he stops..but i cant bring my self to do it to him lol...which is why he knows im a softy and chews me up lol.. he is 6 months old.. u think this biting is still normal though and will go away?  i really hope so...i want to mush him up and i cant.. the funny thing is we went to a festival yesterday and we saw SOOOOO many doodles...and im not just saying this because im his mom..but all the other doodle owners were saying it too...he is EXTREMELY calm and well behaved when in public (all an act) lol.. everyone else kept saying wow hes only 6 months hes much better then our 2 year old doodle..lol... literally this biting thing is our ONLY problem..or else he would be perfect!!!! 

[Joani, Skadi & Elli]

Yes, yes he will stop...but to this day when I rough house with my doodle she bites me...but a very different bite from when she was a mean nasty uncuddly puppy.  She soft bites me now and I throw some toy in her mouth and she leaves me alone.  Oh they are so sweet.  Sounds like Midas has a lot going for him already.

Personally, I would NOT let my trainer or anyone do the underlip curl so she would bite herself when she was going thru that stage...I couldn't stand her little yelp.  The trainer would say, "Well she's hurting you isn't she?"  ...but I still could not do anything harsh to stop the biting.  The water/lemon juice in a squirt bottle was the toughest I got. 

I was so so so so so very very happy when this behavior finally stopped.  Was it because I kept working with her thru training, trying to keep her calm etc.?  I don't know.  It really was like someone thru a switch and she just stopped. Just make sure you aren't getting him too excited, remember, he's used to play biting with his siblings.

Now I say if ONLY I could get her barking to stop...that's my next training ... it never stops!  She's keeping me young! (I'm 62...and we ended up with her because our grown kids couldn't handle her...)  Their loss...we just took her travelling across the country in our travel trailer for a month...what a great companion!

Hang in there you will receive love tenfold soon.

 

[Chels*Claud*Midas]

wow thank u! ur the best!!! thats exactly what the trainer says "he doesnt feel bad when hes biting u" lol but i cant do anything harsh to him either..lol.. he doesnt really bark at anything yet...but when he has...he packs a punch in that bark!! it sounds like a german shepard!! lol.. which will be good if someone ever comes knockin on my door whose up to no good! lol.. was the biting that u experienced really as bad as what im describing with Midas? i feel like i have the worst case out there lol.. its not like he comes and attacks bu if u try to pet him and he gets excited hes coming at u and NOT stopping lol. ps that cross country trip sounds like a blast! sounds like she is a LUCKY girl! :0)

[Joani, Skadi & Elli]

I did not want to break the wonderful spirit of the golden doodle, that is why I do not and cannot tolerate any type of training except reward.  If those trainers can't figure out how to avoid all the biting and nipping and nothing works except to hurt the dogs, I say these trainers need more education.  This topic was really disturbing to me when my dog was a puppy.  I did sooooo much reading and talking and discussions.

And yes, I had to put this 50# weight in the middle of the living room and leash her to it, because everytime I walked by she would lunge at me! And yes I had to crate her for her behavior problems.   And yes, the back of my hands were mutilated!  And my forearms!  People thought I was nuts!  In fact, one of my co-workers ask me why I never raised my voice to her ... she of course like many people don't understand the diffference between firm and harsh.

Keep in touch and let me know how you are doing...I posted some current pictures of my sweet angel today...she still has some devil in her tho...she always has to be the alpha when playing with other dogs!...even her best friend that weighs 2x's more than she does.

PSS.  I don't know how much you know or have had experience with dogs, but listen to your heart when it comes to his training.  These dogs need firm but gentle training and t mucho love....okay okay, and mucho training!

[Frank & TeddyToyDoodle]

7-MONTH NEUTER QUESTION:  Hey, I didn't want to create a new thread for this topic so I am posting here. Basically, Teddy is at 7 months and I haven't gotten him neutered. I'm procrastinating a bit because I kind of feel weird about it and also think maybe he'll get a bit bigger (than 6 months) the longer I wait and I was told that couldn't hurt.  There's a family near me who have a similar-sized Yorkie and he hasn't been fixed and is about 1 year old.   

Basically....should I get it done the next few weeks or wait longer (BTW, he weights just over 12 pounds). There's usually 1 maybe 2 dogs tops that he will "hump" at the dog park on occasion but I would not say it is a major problem.

Thanks.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

With males, you want to wait until they have completed their full skeletal growth. Your vet would be the best judge of that, but I'm pretty sure that a small dog like Teddy would have completed his skeletal growth by 8-9 months. Certainly by a year old, any dog except the giant breeds is fully grown and should absolutely be neutered.

[Frank & TeddyToyDoodle]

Thanks Karen....they sent me a notice on his 6-month bday like clockwork but didn't force the issue.  I am cool with waiting a bit more.  They just sent me a notice for some heartworm test so maybe I'll officially check his weight and ask the vet at that time.  I'm cool with waiting a few more months but will almost certainly do it in less than a year's time.

I think you're dead right on skeletal size.  I think Teddy's height at the shoulder/head are pretty much done and even his weight growth seems to have slowed bigtime.  Hasn't gone in for an official vet weighing in almost 2 months but unofficially on my digital scale I'd say he's low-to-mid 12's after being 11-and-change in December at the vet's office.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Weight is different from skeletal growth. Once the bone growth is completed, the dog may continue to gain weight in the form of lean tissue; muscle mass and bone density. But that isn't affected by neutering. With neutering, you want to wait until the growth plates on the bones are closed, and that happens once full bone length is achieved. That's when it's safe to neuter, even if the dog isn't the full weight he will be as an adult. 

[Frank & TeddyToyDoodle]

But the bottom line is....at 7 1/2 months.....he's pretty much finished with skeletal growth, right ? Maybe a bit more but if 6 months was the general guideline than I think almost being 8 months is almost always OK to have it done, no ?

I'm OK with waiting a few more months, it's just that when they tell you you should have it done at a certain time, it's tough to argue with them sometimes.  I know if I say something like "Well, I just thought being a bit bigger might help with recovery" they are going to say that doesn't matter in the scheme of things and they are probably right.

I have no way of knowing how the vet would know about growth plates on bones....they're not doing an X-Ray or MRI, so I can just guess he/she is guestimating.  Visually, Teddy is pretty much the same today as 1-2 months ago, that wasn't the case last Fall when he was changing in size every few weeks.