Poor temperment and BYB vent

[jenn D]

I think I'm just venting at this point so this post probably has no other purpose except to get things off my chest and maybe warn any potential buyers to please, please research their breeders thoroughly.

As many of you know, we are a mixed doodle house: two doodles from breeder and two rescued. Both rescues have issues I believe stemming from bad breeding. I'm prefacing this by saying we love our doodles and are keeping them all until they go to the rainbow bridge. this post is regarding Jake, the second doodle to come into our home and our first rescue. My husband adores him and has never had his own dog. Jake has bonded with him and my husband loves this dog. Jake has his second birthday yesterday.

I spend a lot of time with the doodles. I'm a stay a home mom so after kids are to school it's doodles and housework for this lady. Many people say our dogs are well behaved and I do work with them as a pack and individually. I groom them all myself. Lots of hands on. But there are some things I cannot trsin out of Jake.

With that being said, Jake is a vet trying dog for me. And I'm a dog person. From his background history he was taken from his litter (sold) at 5 1/2 weeks. He was sold to a gentleman that was not around to take care of him and left him in his crate for 15-20 hours a day until we got him at 8 months. As some of you remember we "got" him via a "hey let's have the doodles get together for a playdate at your place" followed by a text later saying " can you just keep him I'm not coming back".

To be fair Jake has come a long way since the day the playdate turned into a staydate. He can walk on a leash now beautifully, no jump up when he meets people and comes when called. He no longer hoards water and drinks till he throws up. He has learned to be ok with a crate again and not pee in it. He is the best of the 4 dogs to go to the designated potty spot in the yard to pee.

But he plays so rough and has no social skills with the other dogs. Yes the other three are so well mannered they put up with his antics but after awhile they are like "darn this dog is crazy". He humps all of them. He plays very wildly. And when he gets wound up, it's very hard to settle him down. So much so that when the other dogs signal they have had enough we have to get him to sit by us to calm him down. I would never let him go to a doodle romp or take him to play with other dogs except ours. Ours can handle it but his bad social dog manners could cause massive issues. I've tried working on this myself. I've talked to other trainers who have observed him. They've offered suggestions that have helped curb things some but mainly it's me as mama dog intervention. They agree, he lost socialization by being taken too young from his mama and littermates.
In addition, I feel his temperment is just so high strung. Even Pickles who is younger has started to mature more. But he can get all the dogs spun up and when DH takes him on his nightly run and I am with just brisby, Mac and Pickles I admit I breathe a sign of relief. Those three together are so much easier to manage than 1 Jake.
I know he came from a BYB that bred a poodle back to a F1 doodle. I am suspect of their temperaments. I tell myself he needs extra excercise because of the poodle in him (or whatever) and I spend extra time with just him throwing a ball or running the yard. But I can't wear him out.

I continue to work with him but I'm leery of how far I can "change" his personality anymore.
Again, Jake loves to work and he loves training and he loves his people (us) so much. So I keep convincing myself I can do more to help him be more socially aware and to not be so hyperactive.
It's just sad because my other three are so good. They get excited at times and need there exercise too but they can play good together and the settle.
I feel bad for Jake because I don't think he can help it. Please if you are considering getting a dog from a breeder, research well. The man that got Jake from this BYB paid $900 for him. He also made the transaction in a Walmart parking lot and a not even 6 week old Jake was brought home in a cardboard box.
So sad. I'm attaching pictures. The owner had sent me ones of Jake as a pup and one now. I'm on my iPad so if anyone can post them in the thread itself I would appreciate it.
Happy Birthday, Jake. We will do the best we can to help you buddy.

[Stella]

Sadly, it's not just dogs from BYB that have temperament issues. I have two LD, both from the same breeder although they are not related to each other. My first, Hartley, is an awesome dog - he is an F1 LD, great temperament, friendly, loves every person and dog he meets, even enjoys visits to the vet!! Chase, my second (one year younger) is a multi-gen (ALD x multigen LD), we got him at nine weeks old. At the breeders he was with several other dogs and she had children. To my knowledge, the breeder never bred his Mom again, so I have suspicions there was an issue with that whole litter.

We took him to obedience classes, socialized him at farmers markets, soccer games, you name it we did it. We noticed early on that he was an 'alarm barker' and he was fearful of new things - we worked hard on this but his anxiety and fears continued to escalate. He is very highly strung, paces, circles and drives my other dog crazy. They end up winding each other up and have had several serious fights as a result. Chase does not read other dogs body language well, and he is dog reactive - if in doubt attack first and find out if they are friendly later. Dogs he knows and likes he just barrels on in there and leaps on them without the usual doggy greetings first. He rarely allows another dog to sniff him. At the age of five years old I made the decision to put him on Fluoxetine (Prozac) to help with his anxiety and general hyperactivity. He is still crazy but most of the time it is controlled crazy now!! Bringing him down a little has helped our training to be more effective - he just wasn't able to focus before and would get very stressed if I took him to classes. Now he can concentrate and learn and actually control himself around other dogs. It has been a long road, my two still grumble at each other at times but I haven't had any recent fights bad enough to warrant a vet visit which is a relief. I have had the help of some good people who have been patient with us and shown me how to handle him. He now competes at agility and recently took part in a focus class involving all eight dogs being off leash (eeek - hard on my nervous system!!). He is my forever dog, who in their right mind would take on a dog like this, and I love him to pieces. But, I hope I never have another dog like him.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I am so glad to hear that Prozac is helping.

[Gracie, Jade, & Barkley]

It sounds like Jake has been through so much from before you rescued him. I'm sure that has as much to do with his temperament as does the breeding (if not more).

Wow. 15 to 20 hours in a crate and then physically abandoned. Well to be honest he's lucky to have found you.

Happy birthday to Jake!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I have no real advice.....it sounds like you're doing all the right things for Jake.  I just wanted to respond to say how much I admire you for sticking with it and not giving up on him.  I know you must have your moments where you're just on your "last nerve" and wondering if you're even being fair to the other dogs.  I know how that feels, but how can we ever give up on these guys....where would they be without us?  Hang in there and please know that I think you're amazing!

[jenn D]

Yes Jane, that's exactly how I feel. We would never rehome Jake but our lives would have been much easier if he wasn't one of the dogs in our pack. But it is what it is.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I always think that each dog that comes into our lives has something they bring to us, a lesson, a realization, something, and maybe Jake's "something" is meant for your husband. :)

[Wendy and Myla]

Exactly what I was thinking!  It sounds like they bonded immediately! 

[jenn D]

I think you may be right, Karen. My husband says he's always wanted to bond with a dog and never had that connection. He also wanted a standard poodle more than a doodle but he was afraid he would seem "less manly" liking standard poodles. Jake looks so much like a standard poo with tight curls, slim long body, etc. I could probably even clip him that way and people would think he was one. Husband loves the athletic look of large poodles but was afraid he would be made fun of for it. But it's true, these dogs are athletic and not really prissy. And hey, Jake's getting my husband to excercise so there is that. Plus Jake loves my husband even a bit more than he does me which is a first for any of our dogs. My husband grooms Jake on the table and brushes him at night. Jake, all 55 lbs of him, sits in my husbands lap like a small toy dog. That's probably the reason he is here. Thanks for mentioning that Karen. It helps me adjust my perspective.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

:)

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

LIKE!

[Kaitee and Orwell]

Orwell is also from a BYB. I only got him because I know the man personally. Would I recommend anyone getting a puppy from him? No. He takes good care of his dogs and Orwell's mother has no health or temperament issues, so I made the leap. I wasn't even going to get Orwell. I went there and looked just to humor my parents because they didn't want a Border Collie from the reputable breeder I found. My plans flew out the window when I met Orwell. The other puppies were fine, but I didn't particularly like them. 

I lucked out with him. If he wasn't Orwell, I wouldn't have done it. I'm a firm believer in established and ethical breeders, but Orwell was my moment of weakness. 

I do have one question though... 

Orwell did have some social issues in the beginning. He was all, "Let's skip the introductions and PLAY PLAY PLAY." I did get him at 8 weeks exactly, so my BYB was right with that. He has gotten a lot better and I was proud of him for showing his own calming signals and respecting these little dog's space when he met them a couple weeks ago. However, yesterday, he kind of mortified me because he met a female mixed breed yesterday and tried to mount her. They were playing and chasing each other for a while and she got tired and then BAM. She slipped out from under him and wasn't aggressive at all. He didn't seem to want to try it again and a couple seconds later I hooked him up to take him home. Should I be worried about this? I haven't had a male dog before so I feel kind of like a fish out of water even though I've done extensive research. By the way, Orwell was neutered a month ago. 

I think Jake will only get better with time. The poor guy had a rough start. My trainer has a Border Collie who was neglected and beaten with a shovel for the first year of his life, and he is honestly a great dog now. He did take more work she said, but it was worth it and he completely trusts her.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I wouldn't worry about Orwell. Luca still occasionally will mount Calla and he was neutered six years ago" he will cut it out when I tell him to. It's a dominance thing.