Question about behavior and need to vent!

[Nothing To Do With Doodles]

I take my dogs to a big field at a horse park so they can run around. There is a very nice bark park there with a pond and ducks and it's far from the road so it's safe. Sherlock, my maltipoo, is not a fan of big dogs, so he usually just stays by my side. He gets growly and snappy at big dogs if they try to pounce on him, if they stand over him and sniff him too long, or basically whenever he feels threatened. Today he got a bit growly at a boxer mix that was sniffing him too long, and out of nowhere, a pitbull* comes flying at Sherlock and tries to attack Sherlock. The dog ripped Sherlock's coat apart (it was fastened together with velcro) and luckily I was right there so I was able to grab the pit's collar. Of course the owners were yards away and it took what seemed like forever for one of them to come get their dog. The whole time the dog was viciously barking at Sherlock and trying to bite him. One bite and Sherlock could have been seriously injured or killed. It didn't help that Sherlock was trying to defend himself and snap back at the dog. We left the dog group immediately and walked around the perimeter of the bark park. The whole time I could hear and see the pitbull causing problems with the other dogs. Finally the owners took the dog home.
The strange thing was that after the incident, Sherlock was trying to mark EVERYTHING in sight. Normally he marks a few things, but he literally went up to every bench, tree, bush, rock and marked it. I have no idea why he was doing this.
Sherlock already had a strong aversion towards bully breeds, and now this is going to make things even worse.
Also, anyone with a little dog that doesn't necessarily like bigger dogs, how did you socialize your little dog to be calm around big dogs? I've thought about putting Sherlock in day care with bigger dogs, but I'm not sure if he would like that....
* in general I like pitbulls and think they are friendly dogs. A bit too exuberant for me though. But WHY would you bring your unsocialized dog-aggressive dog to a dog park!!!!?

[Rose]

Wow Jane, that's really frightening! I don't have an answer to your question, but my first thought was, thank goodness Sherlock was wearing that coat! It always boggles my mind that people would actually bring such a dog (unsocialized and aggressive, not a Pit Bull) to a dog park!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Jane, I'm sorry you & poor Sherlock had this experience. It's aggravating, frustrating and scary. We left the dog park last time we were there because of aggressive behavior by a "bully breed" dog whose owner had no control or consideration (or brains, IMO) and Jack was twice the size of this dog. It's not the dog's fault of course, it's the owner. Part of the reason people do this is because they mistakenly think that socializing a dog involves getting them together with other dogs, which is completely wrong anyway, and that the best way to do this is to just thrust them among other dogs and let them work things out. Wrong again.
Some of the little dogs in my neighborhood act aggressively toward Jack and the other big dogs. The owners seem to think it's funny and don't do anything about it. (Wonder if they'd think it was funny if Jack snarled or snapped back.) I guess the thinking is that the dog is small and can't do much harm anyway...but the problem, as you know, is that when a little dog acts that way toward a big dog who's aggressive to begin with, it can trigger a tragic reaction. So it's great that you want to keep Sherlock from being reactive towards bigger dogs. I think he's just trying to protect himself.
I've had to work hard to stop Jack from being reactive toward other dogs when we're out on walks; off leash, there's never a problem. I think Jack's issues are different from Sherlock's, so I don't know if any of my techniques would help, but they involve getting & keeping Jack's focus on me, and away from whoever is approaching. I think that's also easier to do on a leash walk than at a dog park, but basically you have to see whatever's coming before they do, and then use the basic commands (sit, stay, watch me, etc).
I wish I could offer better advice; hopefully, someone else will. I'm glad Sherlock wasn't hurt.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

When I first got Jack, he would lie down whenever he met a really small dog, as if to show them he didn't mean any harm...or maybe it was easier to sniff them down at their level, lol. Then a little shih tzu snarled & snapped at his face twice while he was in that position, and he reacted the second time. It scared all of us. Now he is very wary around small dogs, and it's a shame.
It really sounds like Sherlock is fine around big dogs most of the time, as long as he doesn't feel threatened. (Can't really blame him, I can be a real "female dog" when I feel threatened, too!) Maybe it would be a good thing if he could spend some time around very docile big dogs in a controlled environment.
Do you notice any difference in Sherlock's behavior with other dogs when Noah is there vs when he isn't? I wonder if that plays any role in this.

[Tante & Jordan & now Annie!]

That is what I was told to do with Jordan. She likes some dogs but not all. I cant go to DP's with her because we do not want to "set" her back..... She was attacked by a Wolf mix at a dog park when she was 9m old. If a dog sniffs her too long she will get gruff but does not bite.It bothers me so I am careful who she is around.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

That would have scared me to death. That's what scares me about dog parks...not the big dogs, but the irresponsible owners. I now only take Guinness to supervised play groups and to daycare, and that's where he gets to run and socialize. We're lucky that we have supervised play groups that run indoors three afternoons a week. The trainer that runs these sessions charges $8.00 for as long as you want to stay, and she's always on the alert for any negative behavior in the dogs. Do you have anything like this in your area? That's also true of daycare. I get to watch on video, and although there are 30 dogs at a time, it is very carefully managed, and the dogs are prescreened for aggression. This is where Guinness has become totally comfortable interacting with large dogs, even the bully breeds. It's really too bad that these owners spoil it for everyone else at the dog parks, because that could be such a great experience for dogs. Poor Sherlock...give him extra hugs.

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

Wow I wish we had something like this near us. What it is called and how did you find it?

[Karen & Lucy]

Poor Sherlock, I would of been scared. My grandaughter lives next door to me and she got a Chihuahua. He is 12 weeks old now and only weighs 2 3/4 #'s. All he has to do is cross the driveway and he is in Lucy's yard. I have known from the beginning that we had to watch Lucy very closely around him and knowing the temperment of the Chi, he would need alot of socialization. I bring him up to Lucy for her to meet and I keep her on a leash to control her. She LOVES to play and does not realize that she is soooo much bigger than him. She wants to take her paw and come down on his back to say "come play with me". We are doing this slowly and freq. I can now leave her off leash in the house with him, but he is definately afraid of her and runs under the dinning room table and chairs knowing that she can not get to him. He wants to play also and will run around barking at her, but at the same time will hide from her. I was holding him the last time and Lucy had her front paws right up on me as far as she could get nudging at me, jealousy and Max, the Chi, was nipping at her, jealousy. So I have learned not to hold him when they are around each other. I keep telling my grandaughter to take him everywhere with her so he gets used to people and all sizes of dogs and cats.
I would try and find a place you can take Sherlock so he can romp with other dogs his size and keep him out of public dog parks where there are all kinds/temperments of dogs and their irresponsible owners. It is just taking too much of a chance for him to get hurt.

[Tammy & Gracie]

I don't know if the daycare idea would work but I would try it. At Gracie's daycare, they group the dogs by temperament more than size. So there are usually big and small together on the small side (less aggressive) and there are usually all large on the large side. Talk to the daycare group with your concerns. They should know the dogs they keep and make sure Sherlock is with appropriate dogs. Gracie loves daycare. She gets so excited to go several days a week. I also get a break from having to exercise her on those days!

[Camilla and Darwin]

As far as owners bringing their dogs to the park when they know they are aggressive... this frustrates me as well. Luckily, Darwin is very submissive so we have never had any problems, but I have seen a lot of vicious dogs brought to the park, and it takes at least three fights before they finally take them home. I think it could possibly because they realize their dogs are aggressive, and are attempting to socialize their dogs (too late). It's a pity because that is a bad way to go about socialization with a dog that already has problems, and will only escalate the dog's stress in my opinion. I guess that is a gamble you take when you go to a dog park... that there might be irresponsible owners there... I wish there weren't!

[Kyoko]

HI, Jane. I am working with Charlie and her trainser about reducing her reactiveness towards other dogs. I don't even know what happened, but she became pretty reactive being approached by another dogs eventhough they may just want to play with her. ( We used to go to dog parks all the time :-( But we can't do that right now because she gets so stressed and snaps out. ) What her trainer says is that , each dogs have to be respected of their comfort spaces, and gradually have to work to reduce the space. I attached the story that she sent me. It makes a lot of sence to me..... It was super long, so I only pasted up to the certain point.


HE JUST WANTS TO SAY "HI!
By Suzanne Clothier

Sitting quietly on the mall bench beside my husband, I was minding my own business when the man approached. I glanced up as the man sat next to me. He was a bit close for my comfort, so I edged a little closer to my husband who, busy reading a book, ignored me. Still feeling a bit uncomfortable with the strange man so close, I then turned my head slightly away from him, politely indicating I was not interested in any interaction. To my horror, the man leaned over me and began licking my neck while rudely groping me.

When I screamed and pushed him away, my trouble really began. My husband angrily threw me to the ground, yelling at me "Why did you do that? He was only trying to be friendly and say hi! What a touchy bitch you are! You're going to have to learn to behave better in public."

People all around us stared and shook their heads sadly. I heard a few murmuring that they thought my husband should do something about my behavior; some even mentioned that he shouldn't have such a violent woman out in public until I'd been trained better. As my husband dragged me to the car, I noticed that the man who had groped me had gone a bit further down the mall and was doing the same thing to other women.

This is a silly scenario, isn't it? First, anyone who knows me knows that I would never be in a mall except under considerable duress. More seriously, no rational human being would consider my response to the man's rudeness as inappropriate or vicious. By invading my personal space, the man crossed the lines of decent, civilized behavior; my response would be considered quite justified.

That my husband might punish me for responding to such rudeness by screaming and pushing the offender away is perhaps the most ridiculous aspect of this scenario. If he were to act in this way, there would be no doubt in the minds of even the most casual observers that his ego was of far greater importance than my safety or comfort, and that he was sorely lacking even rudimentary empathy for how I might be feeling in this situation.

Fortunately for me, this scenario is completely imaginary. Unfortunately for many dogs, it is a very real scenario that is repeated far too often. Inevitably, as the owners who have allowed their dogs to act rudely retreat from the situation, there are comments made about "that aggressive dog" (meaning the dog whose space had been invaded) and the classic comment, usually said in hurt tones, "He only wanted to say hi!"

[F, Calla & Luca]

Good story!

[Kyoko]

I think it is really good that you know what types of dogs he is OK with and what types he does not really care for. May be if you notice him becoming annoyed by pushy type of dogs, you can guide him to go elsewhere. I am in the very middle of working on this issue with Charlie, and not an expart or anything at all! But, the trainer we are working with said, we should not rehearse the negative situations, which can develop the automatic reactions in the future...
ie. The situation * Big dog come to sniff me --> I get anxieous and starts to feel threatened --> something bad happens / get challenged by other dogs.
This can become automatic reaction * Big dog sniffs me --> Bad things happen which I need to defend myself to * Big dog --> I need to defend myself.
It is taking a long time and a lot of process for me and Charlie, but now she is fine for the dogs to come may be 3 feet away as long as they are not jumping or lunging at her. I don't even know how she became this way, but I am working and dealing with it. I wish we could still go to the dog park and she can still play with her friends, but hopefully those days will come back.