To breeders in regards to ESN

[Dianne Carter ~ Trinity Doodles]

We all get have encountered concerns over the practice of this by potential puppy families. Rather than post in the breeder group, I wanted to post where anyone could view your responses and how you address these concerns. Let us keep this to fact not feeling if we could please. What do you want everyone to know about why you choose this in your program? Please share what you advise those who are apprehensive about it and feel free to link to studies supporting this. Many thanks for taking a moment to help raise awareness!

[April Cliber]

Hi Dianne, this is what I posted last week on another discussion about ESN.

We have early s/n our pups for the last 5 litters. Litter # 6 goes in at 8:30 AM tomorrow morning. We have had no complications and the pups heal very quickly. The key is having a vet that is trained in ESN. It is different than the surgery that is done on an older pup/dog. I happen to very fortunate and have a vet that has had the training and volunteers at our local shelter. He's literally done hundreds of them. The complete surgery for the males takes 5-7 minutes and they don't need stitches, just surgical glue. The females take 10-15 minutes each and get a few absorbable stitches. (Some vets do use stitches for the males.) I bring all the puppies home by about 3:00 and then have to try and keep them quite. Most, especially the boys act like nothing ever happened and want to play. The females can be a little sleepy, but don't act like they are in any pain.

The biggest pro for the pups owner is that they don't ever need to worry about having it done. When the pup goes home he/she has recovered. We got our first doodle as a pet and had her spayed at about 7 months. She would not keep the cone on, ended up chewing it to pieces and then licked out her stitches. She then had to have staples put in and ended up with an infection. It was all very frustrating. She did get through it all fine, but it was such a pain. Some dogs do just fine having the surgery when they are older, but there is always a risk of complications with surgery. Another factor to consider is; If heaven forbid I loose a pup tomorrow (I won't) or have complications it will be my responsibility as the breeder to pay for all related vet bills and to either refund the owner their money or replace the pup. If your vet does the surgery after the dog leaves the breeders house and there are complications it is then your responsibility, unless of course it was a congenital issue and falls under the guarantee.

I did months of research on ESN before deciding that the pros out weigh the cons. You will find vets on both sides of the fence. I will note that The American Veterinary Medical Association, Association of Spay/Neuter Veterinarians, and the College of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Georgia, Humane Society of the US, ASPCA, AKC, The Ohio State University are among those that support early spay/neuter.

This is a good link. http://www.columbusdogconnection.com/PedSpayNeuter.htm

[361jcdia1aoh]

Hi every one! Just wanted to pass along my research on ESN. Here is a wonderful site to support reasons for early spay neuter. http://www.danesonline.com/earlyspayneuter.htm
As a breeder and former vet. technician. I can tell you that many vets. are now taking a new look at ESN. The issue of it creating larger dogs; there is information that it does tend to allow growth in large bones for a longer period of time, a SLOW growth, which also allows for strenghtening of bones. Rapid large bone growth is dangerous ( as is cause of too much calcium in a puppies diet )
Think also about what happens to the reproductive organs at puberty. At or around 6 months of age there is increased blood flow as all of these organs begin to awaken. This increase causes more blood loss during surgery. I can't tell you how many bitches came in for surgery already in heat ( although this is never a good idea )
As a breeder, my puppies do so well with ESN. They heal so quickly and don't tend to mess with stitches, the hardest part is to keep them from running around a playing, because they truly act as if nothing has happened!
Carol Lindley Nutmeg Labradoodles

[Barb Perkins]

Permalink Reply by Barb Perkins 20 minutes agoDelete

Ok forgive me if I'm a little confused. But I just want to be make sure I am fully understanding this discussion and the links etc..Dianne,  you seem to have a really good knowledge base on this...

So here is my dilemma. I am about to receive my first Goldendoodle puppy. Not my first dog ever tho. I had an American Bulldog that wasn't neutered until 3y.o. (long story but I had no choice), he ends up with prostate cancer at 9.5 yo and I lost him in July. Before that I had a female boxer that I had spayed after 1st heat. (possibly 2nd,  can't remember) She died at 11yo most likely of cancer. (never did really know, but she had massive wt loss quickly so I suspect that was it). 

I don't know if late spay/neuter had anything to do with anything - BUT my breeder spays/neuters at 7 wks, then ships at 7.5-8wks. And if you don't want that, you can request that and do it on your own. Am I understanding that most of the research says that 7 wks is showing more advantages than disadvantages? The dog being slightly taller doesn't matter to me,  but if the dogs can be disproportionate and they are more agressive etc, those are things to consider I guess...

I really just want some one to tell me what to do!! lol But advice would be appreciated!

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

First - thank you for brining this to an open forum.

I know this can be a hot topic.  There are many arguments both pro and con.  Although I do have my opinion - I am not well enough informed to say that I am right or wrong. 

 

With Mariner (our doodle that had a head injury at 7 weeks old and went blind) it was recommended we hold off as long as possible to get him neutered.  The thinking was that the hormones helped in brain development.  I don't know if it helped or not.  But he did regain some eyesight.

 

Again this is only one case and it is a special situation.