Phenobarbital not being effective

[Madhura Khedkar]

Hi All - A not so very good Einstein update: 

Einstein (1 year 9 months) had been diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy (MRI, spinal tap, liver tests, thyroid all normal)  in February this year. He was initially started off on Keppra which was not effective after which the vet started him on Phenobarbital 64.8 mg. Pheno was very effective and he was seizure free for 6 months. We recently moved from New York to San Francisco for work the move has not gone down well with our baby. A week after we moved, he had his first seizure in 6 months. 2 days later, he had another seizure. We didn't have a new neuro in the city (appointments are out for a month), so we consulted with our NYC neuro who suggested increasing pheno dosage by 25%. That was 12 days ago. Last night he had another seizure (which makes it 3 seizures in 2 weeks). His previous two seizures in SF were around high levels of activity (a day after walking around the city OR day after hiking). We finally met with a neuro in SF who suggested we let it be and not exercise him as much(keep the same medication dosage and let the seizures be). That seems to be conflicting with the advice we got from our NYC neuro who always advocated decent seizure control through meds since he is a young puppy and should be able to enjoy the outdoors (so that seizures are kept at 3-4 per year). We are consulting another neurologist on Saturday but I would love to get some insights on these medications:

1. Zonasimide: Has anyone used it? I have read mixed reviews on this medication but the side effects seem to be less (slightly) than Pottassium Bromide

2. If my puppy is on phenobarbital, could environment changes affect him so much that his seizure cycle resumes? Or does this indicate lack of good seizure control?

3. Any other new anti-epileptic anyone has used which has proven to be effective? OR any alternative med for that matter?

4. He seems to recover quickly from his seizures and they have been luckily under a minute but I still want the frequency to be much less than this. In Feb, his seizure frequency grew shorter and shorter till he had a cluster seizure (which left him temporarily blind for 15 days). Given all this (and the fact that both my husband and I work and some day cares rejected him due to epilepsy), do you think it is wrong to opt for additional medication? We love him and want to do whats best for him. 

Any other advice / thoughts are very welcome!

[Tammy McIver]

Hi- our Bella has had seizures too; we have never medicated her as they are somewhat
Infrequent. What I wanted to mention was an over the counter remedy called
Pet essence- seizure. I put a couple of drops on a treat 2 times a day and knock on wood things h
Have been good for months. I'll try to post a pic so you can look it up if you want .
Good luck !

[Tammy McIver]

See pic below

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

Tammy - I tried to find the ingredients for Petessence - not listed on their website or any other place. 

Without this information I would not use this product.  Many "natural" or "herbal" treatments have dangerous ingredients.

If you have this product please post the ingredients.

[Tammy McIver]

Here is the ingredient list

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Andy, it's that homeopathic flower essences stuff. 

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

Yes - I looked up each ingredient - there is no evidence that any of it does anything - I also do not know what "other natural flowers" are.  It also has Brandy as an inactive ingredient "as a preservative".

Not knowing the full ingredients I would not even think of using it.

There are many "natural flowers" that are poisons.  There are also some that are very helpful to healthy dogs but should NEVER be given to a dog with seizures, such as Evening Primrose.

[Kathy Sheehan]

Hi there! I read thru some some of the replies from previous posts and came across one I wrote to you when Einstein first started having seizure....here it is:                                                                                                                                      I'm so sorry to hear about Einstein and his seizures. It is one of the worst feelings of helplessness  as a fur-baby owner to witness! I just read thru all these responses and agree with everyone else. I got Cooper from a family friend at 3 months old who got him from a breeder in Colorado. After Cooper started having seizures, our friend talked to the breeder and she said none of her adult dogs or any of her puppies have ever had seizures, which I found hard to believe! Like Karen said, the breeder will always deny any health problems! Cooper turned 2 last May and started having seizures in June. A couple of things to keep in mind is that there is a special cocktail of meds that will work on each dog. But it takes awhile before finding what each dog needs. We are still working on Coopers Cocktail, He is on 2 tabs of 64.8 mg of phenobarbital twice a day and as of yesterday, 1000mg of potassium bromide once a day. The other thing is that it takes 2 or 3 wks for the dogs to get used to the phenobarbital. Cooper looked so dopey at first, it broke my heart to see him that way. He does good now on most days. Now the potassium is making him so sleepy. Like Rebecca said, if there is any type of water around, don't let Einstein out unsupervised. I live in Las Vegas and everyone has pools. I am so glad Cooper doesn't like my pool one bit! My vet told me they had a seizure dog come in last summer. He had been swimming in the pool with his owners and had a seizure and almost drown because they had a hard time getting his seizing body out of the water. Luckily he was ok! But it could of been a very bad situation if he was left unattended by the pool. One last bit of advice....keep a journal. I write down every detail of all of Coopers seizures, including his behavior a couple days before. So far nothing matches up, but hopefully one day soon it will! Good luck with Einstein! Give him a big doodle hug from me and Cooper!

Read more here: http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/15-month-old-with-idiopath...

[Kathy Sheehan]

Now many months later, here is a positive update on Cooper...it has been 18 weeks since he has had a seizure! There has been several times his body acted like he was going to have a seizure and I guess his meds took over and it never turned into a seizure. I am a single mom who works full time, and my son goes to school and works also, so Cooper is home alone for about 6 or 8 hrs a day. I have a large kitchen/dining room area where he gets to stay. I have his kennel and food and water. I just have it safe so if he does have a seizure he can't hurt himself. 

Cooper did start out on zonesimde and did good one it for a couple of months, but then it stopped working. It took us from June 2104 until March/April 2015 to get the right cocktail of meds for him. Please be patient and you will find the right combo for Einstein! Also try to remember that after a medicine change, he will act like a zombie for a week or two as he gets used to the meds. Good luck and doodle hugs to you guys!

[Madhura Khedkar]

Thanks Kathy! Thanks to your post, I make sure that Einstein stays away from the swimming areas (or if he is around, he has a lifevest on). Fortunately, he is a total wuss when it comes to water and even avoids sprinklers :). I am so glad Cooper has been doing so well. Crossing fingers, toes and 4 paws hoping the streak continues forever. 

We met with another vet who did tell us to put him on Potassium Bromide. He has already maxed out on his phenobarbital dosage and any more could be bad for his liver. She also hasn't seen much efficacy with Zonasimide and had couple of bad cases so she recommends PB. We were hesitant at first but having read so many stories, I feel it might be a right decision for Einstein. With PB, did you have to worry about taking him to the beach (salty water?) OR any dietary restrictions? I will keep you posted on what works for Einstein. I also spoke with the vet about the UK drug, Petoxin, but it has not been approved by the FDA so that is out of question for now. Good luck to you guys and Cooper! And thank you for the warm words of encouragement. Sometimes, I need to remind myself that this too shall pass. 

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

Sorry I did not see these posts until just now.  We are very happy with Potassium Bromide and Phenobarb combination.  Since we regulated Mariner he has been seizure free for over four - yes FOUR years.

If you have any questions or concerns - you can email me  [e-mail]  and we can exchange phone numbers - Sharon or I are more than willing to discuss our experiences and recommendations. (Also anyone else that would like to talk to us is welcome to contact us.)

Give Einstein plenty of hugs!!

[Madhura Khedkar]

Thank you so much for your warm and encouraging words! After thinking it over the weekend, we have also decided to add KBr to his med regime. I am so happy to hear your success story and I hope and pray that Mariner stays on a seizure free course. Loads of kisses to your furball and good luck to you both. I will take up on your offer and email you my questions. Hoping that Potassium Bromide really helps control Einstein's seizures better. 

[Kathy Sheehan]

Nope...no dietary restrictions at all...and I don't live near the ocean so he has never played in the ocean...poor deprived dog! But PB does make Cooper thirsty so he does drink alot of water. Another thing is that it takes about 2 or 3 months for the PB to be completely be inn the dogs system. Are you a member of Doodle Family on Facebook? If not, all the please join! Everyone on there are super nice people and we all vent  about our doodles when needed and also its a place to brag about them too!