Non-Doodle Question (Baby Lyla)

[Lori, Daphne, Lucy & Pippa]

Wasn't sure exactly where to post this but I know Karen can help.  Since yesterday, Baby Lyla (Golden Retriever, 11 1/2 months old) has had very mushy to very runny diarrhea. Last night I noticed a little blood that concerned me but I thought I would watch her. Today there was more blood in the mushy poo and then when she went again it was nothing but blood on the grass. I have pictures but they are kind of gross. I was worried so I took her to the vet. They were concerned about Parvo so they made me wait outside in my car for nearly 2 hours. Well she doesn't have Parvo or any kind of parasites. The vet told me he thinks it is colitis. Could be caused by stress or the fact that she chews up green pinecones when they fall out of the tree. He said if she had an obstruction, she would also be vomiting. I was just concerned that she was bleeding internally. He said the color of the blood (just regular red, not dark) does not indicate that. But other than the diarrhea, she seems to be fine. Still running around playing and swimming in the pool. My question is the treatment. He gave her an anti-inflammatory shot  (Dex SP). He also gave her 7 days worth of Metronizadole and some Fortiflora packets. He told me to get some Immodium AD at the store and give that twice a day. Im concerned about the Metro. I know you have said that is a bad thing. Should I just not give it to her or is there an alternative? I'll give her the Immodium, Im just not sold on the Metro. Thanks in advance!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It's not that I don't approve of steroid shots, when they are used judiciously and appropriately. I respect the steroids and the power they have to help with so many health issues. JD has a decent quality of life because of them. But it is my understanding from reliable sources that they should never be used unnecessarily as a "quick fix and that you should always use the lowest effective dose possible. Save the big guns for when they are needed. 

When JD has a serious (ER worthy) IBD flare, I have no problem with his being given a Dex SP shot. But imagine the toll on his body if they gave one every time he had diarrhea or was itchy. 

[F, Calla & Luca]

Judiciously and appropriately of course. But we here don't always know the whole picture. And I think no one should get the idea that having had a dog get a steroid shot will adversely affect the dog long term.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There are different kinds of steroid shots, as you know. In the case of dexamethasone, which is what I was talking about here, the drug indications in dogs and cats are for very serious conditions: immune mediated diseases such as IMHA and thrombocytopenia, some cancers, inflammatory diseases, anaphylactic allergic reactions,spinal cord traumas, shock, and some neurological diseases. It will also mask some infections and viruses. No, no one should get the idea that there will be always be long term adverse effects if a dog gets a steroid shot, but I do think we would all agree that we would not want such a powerful drug used on our pets without a diagnosis that justifies its use. And certainly we would want to be to be informed of what they are being given. 

[F, Calla & Luca]

All true.

[Linda And Callie]

I can only reply by my own experience. I know this board hates metro, but my dog has been on it 4 times in her 3 years and it worked wonders for her. She had giardia, vomiting, no diarrhea but some sort of intestinal distress and the metro fixed her right up...4 times. After I changed her diet she has had no issues. So, it's up to you ultimately what you want to do.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The problem is that metro can cause serious side effects down the line when it is used repeatedly in puppies. Many dogs have developed ongoing digestive issues and even serious, permanent digestive diseases after repeated courses of metronidazole. Please believe me when I tell you that there are very few diseases more difficult, frustrating, and expensive to treat than Inflammatory Bowel Disease, and indiscriminate use of metronidazole to treat diarrhea in puppies has caused IBD in many dogs. I would never want anyone to go through what those of us with IBD dogs go through, on a daily and permanent basis. There are legitimate uses for metronidazole, but there should be a firm diagnosis before prescribing it. In Lyla's case, the vet doesn't even know what is causing the diarrhea. Too many vets recommend metro any time a dog has diarrhea. Because of that, many of us, myself included, believed that it was a harmless diarrhea treatment. But it isn't; it's an antiprotozoal that has significant side effects, including neurological disorders when used long term.No drug should be used indiscriminately without a good reason, especially when there are safer and more effective medications available. And sometimes, there is an underlying disease process causing the diarrhea, and that needs a reliable diagnosis & treatment plan instead of just repeatedly treating the symptoms with drugs

With all my heart I hope that your dog continues to thrive and have no issues. But if metronidazole really fixed anything, why would your dog, or any dog, need it four times in three years? 

[Lori, Daphne, Lucy & Pippa]

I just prefer to err on the side of caution. I don't want to ever give her anything to harm her. Why take that chance if I don't absolutely have to? If things get worse then I will reevaluate but for now I'm holding off on the drugs. I appreciate all your advice Karen!

[Linda And Callie]

Again, my dog had giardia, she never had diarrhea in the 3 years I've had her. She would vomit so bad she vomited blood. My gut tells me she picked up something from the communal dog water dish at the dog run. I now insist she has her own water out of her own dish. So I'm thinking some sort of bacteria. She never had any adverse reactions to the metro. But I did change her diet which may or may not have anything to do with that whole mess. I simply don't know. But I do know that there have been no adverse reaction to the metro thus far.

[Oliver & Elizabeth]

Oliver had a few bouts of colitis about a year ago--our vet thought it was caused by stress or a virus (they couldn't find anything on the tests). They gave us endosorb, which is like Pepto Bismol for dogs. It worked really well when combined with a bland diet and probiotics. We've been colitis free for about 10 months so we've very happy, might be worth trying! Good luck!

[Lori, Daphne, Lucy & Pippa]

Thanks Elizabeth. I think I will go with the Immodium and probiotics for now unless she gets worse. Vet only asked me if her food had changed recently, never told me to feed her a bland diet. I guess that might be helpful too. Her last poo tonight still had blood but was looking a little more solid. We'll see how she is in the morning. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Endosorb is a good product. I've never used it, but many people in my IBD dogs group have had success using it for colitis.