What do I tell the vet . . .

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

Stuart has had diarrhea for 2 days, usually if things get soft or runny a little bit of extra Primal in with the Orijen puppy will firm things back up.  Not this time.  This afternoon after having water type poo again - we ran a poo sample to the vet as I wanted to make sure that he did not have a relapse of Giardia.  Came back clean and they put him on Endosorb and Metronidazole.  The vet told dh that she wishes we would stop feeding the raw food.  So I cooked white rice in veggie broth for his dinner which he turned his nose up to till I added his primal to it and then down it went.

Why does the vet think the raw is so bad.  How do I defend my decision to feed the raw.  What do I tell the vet?

Karen - I need you girl!!!

[Tina, Clover, Plus 5 More]

I've had very limited internet connections lately. Hopefully you can open this file.  I do have a copy of the ebook if you need any additional chapters for reference.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Here's the on-line version of some of it:

http://books.google.com/books?id=tuhlS_MH26AC&pg=PA280&lpg=...

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

Do you know if this is the case in Canada as well, Karen?

 

I know that vet's offices here are stocked with Hill's prescription formulas most of the time, and that one of my students (a vet tech) gave me a sour look when I said I fed my puppy Blue.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm guessing it's the same, then. :)

[Kaytlin and Cooper]

yes its the same here in Canada, very few vets know anything about food

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Here's an example of why we don't care what the vet thinks you should feed your dog.

The other night, I was talking to a man who had applied to adopt a rescue dog. On his application, he indicated that he feeds his current dog a product called DCO. I was not familiar with this food, and asked him about it. He explained that he buys it from the vet because his dog has a very sensitive stomach, and this is what the vet recommended. He also mentioned that it costs him $80 a bag.

I did a little research. It's a Purina Rx diet, and here are the ingredients:

Ground yellow corn, dried beet pulp,* poultry by-product meal, corn gluten meal, barley, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), pea fiber, dicalcium phosphate, dried whey, potassium chloride, salt, fish oil, animal digest, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, calcium carbonate, choline chloride, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride, copper sulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate.

Let's take a look at those first five ingredients, noticing that there are only 6 ingredients in the food, other than vitamins and minerals, the remaining one being beef tallow (lard):

Beef Tallow

AAFCO: Fat with titer above 40 degrees Celsius, obtained from the tissue of cattle in the commercial process of rendering. Also called Beef Fat. Dogs and cats like the taste of this fat, so it is often used to make low-quality food more palatable. Beef tallow is very low in linoleic acid and much cheaper for the pet food industry to use than a good quality vegetable oil or nutritionally rich chicken fat. ($80 a bag, the vet charges)

 

1. Ground Yellow Corn.

    Not much explanation needed here. Inappropriate for a dog to be eating at all, let alone as the main and most abundant ingredient in the food. For a chicken, fine. Not for a dog.

2. Dried Beet Pulp

    The fibrous material that remains after beets are processed. Plant fiber, most of which is indigestible.

3. Poultry By-product Meal

    Here is what The Dog Food Project has to say about this:

   

AAFCO: Consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcasses of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines, exclusive of feathers except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices.

The parts used can be obtained from any slaughtered fowl, so there is no control over the quality and consistency of individual batches. Poultry byproducts are much less expensive and less digestible than chicken meat.The ingredients of each batch can vary drastically in ingredients (heads, feet, bones, organs etc.) as well as quality, thus the nutritional value is also not consistent. Don't forget that byproducts consist of any parts of the animal OTHER than meat. If there is any use for any part of the animal that brings more profit than selling it as "byproduct", rest assured it will appear in such a product rather than in the "byproduct" dumpster.

4. Corn Gluten Meal

   More corn.

   Corn gluten meal is a concentrated source of plant protein that can be substituted for costlier animal protein.  In many bargain dry dog foods, corn gluten meal provides a large proportion or the total protein in the food rather than more digestible forms of protein such as meat.

Corn Gluten Meal

AAFCO: The dried residue from corn after the removal of the larger part of the starch and germ, and the separation of the bran by the process employed in the wet milling manufacture of corn starch or syrup, or by enzymatic treatment of the endosperm. An inexpensive by-product of human food processing which contains some protein but serves mainly to bind food together. It is not a harmful ingredient but should not rank high in the ingredient list of a quality product.

5. Barley

    Nothing much wrong with a little barley, but did this food need more grain? Where's the meat? Where are the nutrients?

Starch, starch, and more starch, with some fiber and a little animal by-product thrown in. And some disgusting things like Animal Digest:

From the Dog Food Project:

Animal Digest

AAFCO: A material which results from chemical and/or enzymatic hydrolysis of clean and undecomposed animal tissue. The animal tissues used shall be exclusive of hair, horns, teeth, hooves and feathers, except in such trace amounts as might occur unavoidably in good factory practice and shall be suitable for animal feed. If it bears a name descriptive of its kind or flavor(s), it must correspond thereto. A cooked-down broth made from unspecified parts of unspecified animals. The animals used can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Any kind of animal can be included: "4-D animals" (dead, diseased, disabled, or dying prior to slaughter), goats, pigs, horses, rats, misc. roadkill, animals euthanized at shelters, restaurant and supermarket refuse and so on.

 

 Oh, wait: How about some synthetic vitamin K, down there at the end of the list:

   

Menadione Sodium Bisulfate

Vitamin K3, synthetic vitamin K. Feed grade. Also listed as Menadione Dimethyl-Pyrimidinol Bisulfate, Menadione Dimethyl-Pyrimidinol Bisulfite, Menadione Sodium Bisulfate Complex, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite and Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex. Unnecessary ingredient in dog food. This synthetic version of vitamin K has not been specifically approved for long term use, such as in pet food. It has been linked to many serious health issues. More Details

Here is a list of negative effects of menadione on the body:

• causes cytotoxicity in liver cells
• causes formation of radicals from enzymes of leucocytes, with the consequence of cytotoxic reactions
• considerably weakens the immune system
• possible mutagenic effects
• damages the natural vitamin K cycle
• has no effect on coumarin derivatives, which are often present in commercial food due to mold contamination (toxic when ingested)
• causes hemolytic anemia and hyperbilirubinemia, not just linked to large doses
• disturbs the level of calcium ions (Ca2+) in the body, which is an important factor fibrinolysis
• is directly toxic in high doses (vomiting, albuminuria), unlike natural vitamin K
• builds up in tissue and has been detected in eggs, meat and milk of animals supplemented with menadione derivatives
• causes irritation of skin and mucous membranes
• causes allergic reactions and eczema

        This is a veterinary diet recommended and sold by vets for big profits.

If anyone's vet recommends this food, or anything similar, that is not someone whose opinion you want on the subject of what to feed your dog.

 

[Kaytlin and Cooper]

well said Karen!

[Cindy M, Zachary & the Frenchies]

Most raw fed dogs - especially those eating raw bones usually have small formed poop -I really doubt that the raw food is the problem.