Opinions please

[Monica And Cooper]

I have a 5.5 month old golden doodle. We've been through 6 private training sessions. He has done pretty well with commands ie: place, automatic sit, sit, down etc. he is still however having many issues which I know goes with puppy territory. On walks when he sees people/animals he Goes crazy pulling and jumping. In the house he jumps on the kids a lot, and is still very mouthy. Just yesterday he jumped up on my 4 year old daughter and ripped her earring out making her ear bleed.

So I'm writing because my trainer wants me to get him a prong collar and I can't bring myself to do it.literally stood in the aisle at petco for 20 minutes contemplating it and then walked out. My trainer says we will see a different dog and his behaviors will be more controlled. I really need some input here and welcome your thoughts or similar experiences.
By the way...... He gets walks often and plays fetch with us in the yard for at least an hour a day so he is getting opportunities for burning some energy .

[Leslie]

These days I'm so busy training my great big goofy goldendoodle, Bear, that I rarely seem to have time to check this site, but when I saw your post, I felt I had to offer my opinion. The fact that you couldn't bring yourself to buy a prong collar is a testament to your good instincts. Sorry to say, but there are a lot of trainers out there who may seem effective, but what they end up doing is more harm than good.

Bear and I have had the good fortune of working with several trainers who only use positive methods of training. The whole point is to help lively, reactive dogs feel safe and comfortable. A prong collar causes more stress and fear and though the behaviors you don't want may subside, it's at the expense of helping your dog experience you and the world as safe.

If you can't immediately find a trainer, there are books and websites that can help you figure out good ways to help your puppy grow up to be a happy, healthy doodle!

Leslie

[Laura and Angus]

I feel you. We could not bring ourselves to use one of those pointy metals ones like people had suggested. While we were doing training, we used the Star Mark Training Collar (below) on walks. This was used with the assistance of our trainer on how to properly use it for training purposes. We were taught to only use it to quickly correct a behavior (a quick 'pop' with the leash) and then a redirect and reinforce with any appropriate leash behavior. And I'll tell you what...our guy did NOT pull with that on. We mostly walked loose leash and that allowed us to give him a bajillion treats for good behavior - thus teaching what we expected of him. Our trainer said that you should be giving 3 treats for target behavior for every 1 correct (as a ratio).

Once he grew out of this collar we got an Easy Walk harness. It's amazing and I'd completely recommend it. I will also tell you that I believe there is something to be said for the use of some kind of training collar to be used to correct inappropriate behavior while at the same time giving reinforcement for appropriate. You're teaching your pup manners on walks afterall. They need help understanding the "not acceptable" and the "acceptable".. imho. 

In terms of the jumping...our pup's jumping habits have significantly decreased (he's 15 months now), but it took a lot of leash work. He never had free run of the house (still doesn't) and when he's overly excited, we would often have to leash him until he calmed down or was given an opportunity to run to drain energy. I'd recommend you have him leashed if there's a lot of activity in the house and LOTS of exercise will help. Angus' mouthy behaviors decreased around 6 months (which was also when he was neutered). At the same time, we increased his exercise and he went to daycare - being around other dogs helps them learn that mouthing is not appropriate. We also started using an air spray canister to correct mouthing - that imo was what made the biggest difference of all. Any time he would touch anything with his mouth that he was not allowed (our clothes, the remote, shoes, our skin) we would say, "No" and then a few second delay and he would get a puff of air (with a hiss) to his back hip. He did not like the air spray canister - I honestly think it was that it startled him out of his mouthing.

Anyway, I would limit the space you give your pup when the kids are around (for safety reasons) since kids can really get puppies excited - high voices + sudden movements. You can also work with the little ones about how they can use "calm voices and bodies" around the puppy. This is a very hard stage, so for us it required a LOT of work. I promise it has paid off immensely for us already. Along with the limiting of space, I'd make sure you're using some kind of correction strategy for inappropriate behaviors. Some people use a squirt bottle, some people use a can with coins - for us we found that the only thing that made sense to our pup was the air canister. It's called the Pet Convincer II - you can find it on Amazon if you wanted to read more about it. I am totally a believer that you to both correct inappropriate/dangerous behaviors while reinforcing positive behaviors.

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

Joann, you may like to add this question as a discussion to the Food Group as this discussion is about prong collars. Also, mention which treats you're planning to use, etc. They have great info there on how to make homemade treats, too. Just do a search for that. Best,

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

You use healthy treats and figure them into their calories for the day....and you're just giving them tiny pieces.

[Gail and Bailey]

When I signed Bailey up for training classes, it was a requirement to use a prong collar. I did not want to get one however I really wanted to train at that facility as they have a great reputation so I got one! I still use it to this day and she is 4 years old now. I like the ability to give a quick correction when we walk and when we are in a public place. She is totally fine with it and is very eager to have it put on as it means we are going out! . She came to us when she was 6 months old and we started the training when she was about 8 months old. Obviously the prong collar is not to be left on the dog all the time!

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

I'm so glad you didn't buy the prong collar, also. He is so young - it will take time for the walks. Cross the street if that happens, or stop, have him sit facing you, and your back to the other dog. What came to my mind also was the energy level In the house. I know it is hard with kids, believe me, but if there is lots of movement, noise, and energy going on, pups will feed off that. I'd try to keep things calm, never rewarding jumping or nipping with any sort of attention. But for those busy times when may act up, crate him with treats/antlers, whatnot for going in. Mental stim games are great. Also, I'm a big believer in puppy play dates - when they really run and wrestle with a well matched friend that is what tires them out way more than walks or fetch. Mine loved social time! Good luck with sweet Cooper! :)

[Nancy & Nelly]

Have you tried the Easy Walk Dog Harness?

It gently discourages your pup from pulling on the leash. Easy to slip on, and instead of pulling near the dog's neck, the leash attaches to the harness on the dog's chest. I bought the medium size when our Nelly was 4 or 5 months old, and now she's 53# at 1.5 years and it still fits (you can adjust it as your pup grows).

Good luck! They do mellow a tad with age, LOL...

Nancy & Nelly

[Leslie, Yogi & Maci Bear]

We never used a prong collar and yogi is a perfect gentleman. Still working on Maci, but I think it's more a matter of time we have invested in them. Maci is getting close now, it just takes time.

[Glenda & Lizzy Lu]

We got Lizzy Lu at 4 months. She is now 14 months and a very energetic, sweet girl that would pull and drag us all over the track. We enrolled her in her first obedience class in Sept. Our neighbor is a dog trainer and had been working with her off and on but we decided it was time to get her in a more structured situation and with other dogs. The neighbor had suggested a prong collar on more than one I ocassion but my husband would not even discuss it.
The first night my husband and I took Lizzy to the obedience class she was all over the place! I was the one on the other end of the leash and our 50 lb bundle of joy acted like she knew nothing! The trainer, a small, sweet older lady so overtaken with arthritis I could not believe she was able to stand, immediately told her assistant to get Lizzy a prong collar. I looked over and saw the look on my husband's face just waiting for him to motion me to bring Lizzy and head for the door. Before that could happen the prong collar was placed on Lizzy along with 3 other dogs and the trainer began her explanation and demonstrating the benefits of the prong collar. She had each of us, my husband too, place our bare arms in the collar as she pulled it showing exactly how it worked. After that my husband settled down and so did Lizzy. I've gotta say that collar was magical! A quick tug and immediate release of the collar was all it took to get her attention. I never felt like I was causing her discomfort but that she realized I was right there and that I was in charge...not her. Her other collar would get so tight as she pulled so hard I was worried about damaging her neck. We even used a halter which made her pull even worse.
Lizzy graduated from her first class and has become a joy to walk. She gets very excited and is ready to go when the prong collar appears. My husband walks her now without hesitation. We have enrolled her in a second class...a rally class. Our goal is for her to be a therapy dog. But, most of all we want to enjoy and love her as a member of our family. Now that she has figured out who is in charge we are all happier. I hope you find what works for you and your puppy. We did. I also wanted to add. All the training was done with positive reinforcement, lots of praise and love during and after all training.
Glenda & Lizzy Lu

[Gail and Bailey]

Love your story and your explaination of how the prong collar does not hurt them!

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I have come to believe that collars are merely tools...it is the training and consistent follow-through that makes the difference.  I don't have an objection to a prong collar if it is used correctly, and I know it has worked for some dogs.  It really didn't work for my Murphy.  He was highly reactive and it just made him more fearful and stressed.  On walks when he starts pulling and jumping have you tried just turning around quickly...taking a couple steps in the opposite direction...and then back again?  I never move forward one step unless my guys are in the right state of mind.  For a long time that meant we turned in the opposite direction many, many times during a walk...or turned and sat.  If it was a significant distraction and they are behaving I will reward.  I would definitely not leave a prong collar on in the house.  I think it's fine if they are leashed with a shorter leash that will not get "hung up" on anything...or tethered to you, but with a flat collar.  The jumping and mouthing is due to excitement....be careful that you're not reacting with more excitement.  Calmly removing him the minute that behavior starts and crating or redirecting is what I have found to be most effective.  If the kids will be running I would keep the puppy in another place...a running child is way too much for a puppy to resist.  They also want to run...and jump...and nip because that's how they love to play.  So if you like this trainer and feel that she is being respectful and fair, then I would learn to use the prong collar appropriately.  If you see any concerning reactions from your puppy, I would look for a different tool.  I tried every collar and the one that my Murph is most comfortable with is the Gentle Leader.  Some dogs hate it, but he is comfortable and calm with it (most of the time).  Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Shari Becker]

From reading all these responses, it seems like prong collars, on some dogs, can be effective and not painful. We did experiment with a prong collar last winter, when the snow was 6 feet high in Boston, and the ground was icy, and Lexi was pulling us everywhere. She took me down twice, and it was scary. It did work to calm the pulling, but it also seemed to make her more reactive and stressed. So she wasn't pulling me down, but she was acting out in other ways. I know lots of folks who use them on their big dogs without issue, saying they are the only tool that works for them. We started working with a new trainer who taught us some amazing leash techniques with the EZ Walk, and we haven't used the prong in months. She's been awesome. If the winter ice proves to be a problem again, I could see us switching back to the prong just on icy days, though. Our trainer said sometimes you need an imperfect solution for dangerous situations. I'm hoping we won't need it. The leash techniques have really been a life saver, and I think Lexi is happier without the prong.