Are Doodles Real Difficult to Train?

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Yesterday I went shopping for a class in advanced training for Spud. We also needed dog food. I called a business I had used 15 years ago. After asking just a few questions the bored lady said, " Just go to my website it will answer any of your questions." I explained her web site would not load the particular page and she replied " Yeah, my husband is a programmer and my computer doesn't work real well either." She never answered my simple questions.

We got in the car and took a road trip to her store to purchase the dog food and see what she could offer us in person as to what type of training would be good for Spud.

My first question this time was, " Do you mind training this type of dog?" ( are you interested, hate this type of dog, etc was what I really wanted to know ) She went on to explain that Doodles are just okay and most are real hard to train. I then asked in what way................. ???? I got my dog food but again never had my question answered as I was rushed out of the empty business. Needless to say, we won't go back to purchase food or training. So I'm shopping again.

Has anyone on DK been told these dogs are hard to train? If so, in what way?

Am I confusing "smart" with "train"?

[Nina, Phil, Harlow & Lacey]

Hmm, I don’t think doodles are hard to train. In fact, I have experienced just the opposite. Harlow has been the easiest and quickest learner I have ever had. She is a joy to train. We are graduating from puppy class this weekend. We did this at Petsmart for socialization. But it is a bit slow paced. We have already begun to look for a more advanced class. I think the lady at the shop would have difficulty training any dog.

[Adrianne Matzkin]

Adina,
I never thought of it that way. Yes, they are smart. Smart dogs (and humans) need to be challenged constantly to keep from being bored. Walk nicely, sit, etc just doesn't do it. It takes lots of time to train and just minutes to teach.

I am guilty of being lax with Samantha. I didn't realize it until I was walking 2. Very tiring. For 1 week I had three to walk! You should have seen me when I got into the office - I looked and felt like I had run a marathon (of course, if I ran). That can only be my fault, If Samantha had been walking nicley like she knows how to do, the others would follow.

So, my way of getting us back on track, we will be doing a 'trick' class. Fun things for Samantha to learn but more importantly I must be consistent. That should get ME back on track for a well trained dog.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I agree that doodles are smart which makes it easier to learn. As for training they, like the rest of us, rely on consequences, in order to decide whether to obey commands which they have learned. If they know positive rewards e.g.. food, praise or petting are going to follow they will obey provided that something more rewarding is not available e.g. sniffing another dog, or rolling on a dead bird. Eventually they learn that some behaviors also bring negative consequences e.g. leash corrections, reprimands and they try to avoid these. In the end, somehow in their doodle brains they work this all out and they are "trained". In reality we owners are being trained at the same time to reinforce good behaviors and extinguish negative ones. But no human or doodle ever perfects this, I think.

[Stella]

Doodles are smart dogs!! This can make them hard to train - IMHO! My first doodle (now 20 months old) was difficult to train - he is very very smart and reasoned his way out of everything!! He was our first dog so we weren't confident at what we were doing either. He got bored very very easily, we could only practice something two or three times in a row otherwise he just switched off. He (still) needs to be challenged and to have variety in his training. Now, with consistency and hard work, he is doing really well. We are now part of a training team at the school we go to and do obedience and agility demonstrations with him.

Our new puppy, not as smart, is much easier to train - he doesn't think about it, he just does it (most of the time - we are currently in the dreaded "teenage" phase!!), he doesn't quesion you! Of course, we are more confident now having been through it all once already!!

Find another trainer, preferably one that is "doodle friendly" and has experience training doodles before!

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

I think you should find another trainer! Really! It doesn't sound like she is a very positive person and we all know what a positive attitude can do with training! The dogs respond to it better...

[Adina P]

MAYBE on #1...but maybe you just need a better teacher or to learn a new way of looking at it. Sometimes we have the right general idea...but...we need some fine tuning of technique. Or we lack consistency. For example:

-- I don't always correct the 'right' way per the method I use or I might give a command when I can't follow through.
-- I sometimes put Rosco in a down stay and then forget I did it and 30 minutes later I realize..."wait! he's walking around and I forgot I had him in a stay!"
-- I miss/neglect training opportunities for convenience. There might be a knock on the door and instead of taking the extra time to get myself prepared for a teaching moment, I grab the dogs and put them on the other side of the baby gate or let them maul (friendly mauling) whoever is on the other side of the door. THANKFULLY I do NOT give commands at that time without a means of reinforcement...BUT if I had the patience to make it into a training moment rather than feel frenzied and hurried to answer the door...they'd be even more responsive!

As to your #2, my opinion is that that is likely the case many times. There has to be a strong reason (amazing reward or consequence worth avoiding) for a dog to do something...if that gets watered down over time (not much good or bad happens regardless of the dog's choice) then the easiest thing to do is to do what suits the dog at the moment. That's where consistency comes into play...which is TOUGH.

There are things I know how to do right in my head, but suck at executing or can't figure out the precise way to refine a behavior. Nobody local uses the method I prefer...so I haven't had a chance to be watched/critiqued/advised in a helpful way...thus I know until the light bulb moment goes on I won't improve aspects of Rosco's training. Then there are things I've just been lazy about.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

The more I think about this, the more I think about this. Maybe
1. I am not trained to train my dog. ( I thought I was--so I am humbled )
2. My dog is trainable, but so smart he has figured out that he no longer must listen unless he decides he should.

No, Adina your reply was not long, I just wished I would have written it myself because that is exactly what I was thinking. Thank you all. I just might go to her class. I didn't love her, but I don't need to love her. If she got me thinking this hard by saying almost nothing, she just may have an effect on Spud and I

[Adina P]

I agree Debbie...doodles are absolutely trainable and I apologize if my long post came across as me thinking they are not trainable. I think they are...but I think that most people confuse 'teaching' with 'training' and don't continue on toward the goal of 'fully trained' thinking "my dog KNOWS what he's supposed to do, but just gets too excited when he sees ____". All that says to me is the dog isn't finished and (if the person WANTS a trained dog) training needs to continue until _(insert exciting thing)__ makes no difference to the dog's ability to respond to a command. What a dog 'knows' is irrelevant...what a dog 'does' is what affects day to day life with the dog.

[Debbie and Toby]

When we took Toby to his first puppy classes at 4 months old, we were told by the trainer that "doodles are difficult to train". She really didn't have a good explanantion of "why", ....during classes Toby would just sit along the fence and didn't want to participate, she allowed it and actually told me "it was OK, don't force him to particpate if he doesn't want to". So every week we stood by the fence "watching" the class. She sure didn't mind taking our $100.00, though. We did not get a refund, but then again we never went back. For some reason I guess she had already made up her mind that he wasn't "trainable". Boy, was she wrong! We still have a lot to learn, and always will, but we have come a long ways! :-) I do agree with Adina, it is very time consuming and challenging, but I think with a lot of consistancy it can be done.

[Adina P]

P.S. -- a good trainer will train ANY type of dog (maybe short of aggression).