doodle anxiety

[NMB]

I got my doodle, Sadie, when she was four months old from a pet store.  She arrived at the pet store from a puppy mill down south.  She was so adorable and I swear she picked me out.  She was also very sick with bilateral ear infections, bilateral pneumonia, giardia, urinary tract infection, and had been physically abused.  She has overcome so much, however there is lingering anxiety and the vet has said she could prescribe Prozac for her.  Does anyone have any experience with doodles with anxiety and extreme hypervigilance or being treated with antidepressant meds for this?  Thanks for feedback/comments.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Before I put her on meds, I would try working with a behaviorist/trainer on her fear and anxiety issues. Quite a few of us have adopted dogs who were originally from pet stores/ puppy mills and have worked through these kinds of issues. My own doodle Jack was born in a puppy mill, purchased from a pet store, abused, abandoned at a shelter, and adopted by me at 14 months old filled with myriad fear issues. I worked with a behaviorist for 8 weeks and then continued his socialization/training program on my own. I'm happy to say I now have a very well-adjusted, calm, friendly, confident dog.
How old is Sadie now, how much work have you put in on socializing and training so far, and how does her anxiety manifest itself? These things will help determine the best route for you to take. I would personally save the Prozac as the last resort option.

[NMB]

Thank-you for your response. I am saving the Prozac as a last resort as I believe it to be a huge decision. There are a few more interventions to try before a decision will be made. Thanks again.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Say YES to Drugs ! Many dogs have been prescribed anti-depressant medications with good results. If your vet thinks this is what is needed. Do it.

My neighbor does some really challenging rescues. She has had over a hundred dogs in 10 years. She swears by Prozac---funny she won't take her meds correctly, but for her dogs she said it truly works.

Ask yourself this question--If you felt this bad, if you had been through these horrific life challenges, what would you want. If a doctor thought this might help you, would you try?

She can't communicate with you. If you could ask her if she wanted to feel better, what would she say? If she could make the choice for herself, what would she do? She is hoping you make the right decisions for her. :)

The Say Yes To Drugs--Drugs are for the sick and I am all for the sick taking what is needed to help them get and feel well. Good Luck. Kiss her for me today, will you :)

[NMB]

Thanks for thoughts Joanne, I appreciate it. Those are exactly the questions I have been asking myself.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

While I do not have access from home to scientific research libraries here are a few sites that may help you make the right decisions for you and Sadie

I am sure there are more out there.

http://www.vetinfo.com/dprozac.html
http://frontierpsychiatrist.co.uk/reconcile-prozac-for-dogs/
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article1705299.ece

[F, Calla & Luca]

Of course, if behavioral techniques are effective that's good. However, sometimes the anxiety level can be so high that learning itself is difficult or ineffective. Medication can be very helpful. There was once a polar bear at The Bronx Zoo who swam compulsively until he was exhausted. A combination of Prozac and making him search for his food resulted in a successful outcome. Prozac has been around a long time and has been a very safe medication. If your vet recommended it I would try it because it can result in a faster recovery than behavioral methods alone, even if the behavioral methods might be effective eventually.

[Debbie and Thomas]

I had a client a few years back and she had rescued a small white fluffy dog from the Toronto Humane Society. This lady was a senior and a widow but was still a very active vibrant woman. Her dog was about 5 yrs old when she got her and had severe issues with anxiety especially when the lady went out. The vet prescribed a form of prozac for her dog and over a period of a few months, the dog became a wonderful companion. Now, the dog may have just adapted on her own, but results were seen after just a few weeks of being on the medication. I believe that the vets intention was to ween her off the meds after some time. There is also something called "Rescue remedy" that can be bought at Health food stores. Our dog trainer recommended it to several people in our puppy obedience classes that had dogs from a rescue situation. I think this remedy may have been discussed on this forum before and some of the members have used it.

[NMB]

Thanks Debbie, I am going to look into the "rescue remedy".

[Glenn Massie]

Please only consider medication on the advise of a veterinary behaviorist.
http://www.habitatoutfitters.com/heathyourdog/drugsdogs.html
I suspect your dog's issues are the result of a lack of socialization. This is very common with pet store puppies and dogs that suffered illness during the formative early weeks.

Buying a puppy without problems is harder than most people think. Finding a responsible and knowledgeable breeder is very difficult. Please download and read, “How To Buy A Puppy” before you consider parting with your money. It is free @ www.howtobuyapuppy.net

[NMB]

Thanks for your response. Sadie is actually a very social dog going to day care 2-3 days per week and joins social groups on weekends. She has seen a veterinary behaviorist who also did a thorough exam and was negative for any physiological cause. She gets a significant amount of exercise at least 2x's per day. I don't want to take the issue of medication lightly while at the same time I don't want her to be suffering if there is something that she could take. The behaviorist said that she would like Prozac to be a last resort. Thanks for the aritcle as well, which was interesting.

[Glenn Massie]

I’m glad to hear that you have seen a veterinary behaviorist. It sounds as though you found a good doctor since they were not quick to put your dog on medication. The lack of socialization I mentioned in my earlier post was in reference to weeks 3-16 in your dog’s life which is considered the most important period of social development. These early weeks and the experiences or lack of experiences can have profound effects on development and behavior. Puppies that are not carefully exposed to sights, sounds, and other life experiences during this time are at a greatly increase risk of displaying fear, anxiety, and hyper vigilance as they develop. These behaviors often become more pronounced at about 6-8 months. What has been imprinted on a dog’s psyche during the sensitive learning stage between 3-12 weeks can have lifelong adverse effects. The good news is that this can usually be modified to some degree with appropriate training with a professional without medication. Please feel free to email me from the link at my website if you would like more specific information for your situation.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

I disagree with you on many issues here--politely, but I do for several reasons:
* You mention how to buy a puppy. This is great information to put out here but it is not her problem at this time. She has already purchased the puppy. So this really won't help with her question about medication.
* Sadie's owner never stated what anxiety her dog expresses. A vet has already suggested this medication for this unknown anxiety. Should we over ride a vets decision?
* Why should medication be a last resort? Is there something wrong with medicating a dog? You do not tell us your experiences with seeing a dog medicated. Do you have any? Just curious. I thought maybe you had seen something we should be warned about. Or are you just against all medications.
* It is my understanding that if a dog needs medication it should be combined with a behaviorist AND training. Not one without the other. Not given as just a pill to make it all go away.
* We should ask her how old Sadie is now. How can we go through all the developmental stages when I don't see an age posted here. While developmental stages are very important in understanding dogs we have no idea which one Sadie is currently displaying.
Here is just one link to the many out there: http://doodlerescuecollective.ning.com/profile/AnneWillis?xg_source...
* As I thought you were extremely interesting it just came across that you are completely against drugs. Drugs should be given to those that are sick. They should not be discouraged but encouraged if it makes one well.

I agree that in many cases drugs are given freely but I think in this case she has done a lot already and nothing is working. Drugs get a really bad wrap but they are all not bad in all situations. Prozac and drugs in the same class have recieved bad publicity but we rarely hear the goods stories. What is the harm in trying. It is not an addictive drug and would not cause her dog long-term side effects.

Just my opinion. FYI, your link on you page is not working--could you re-post so I may visit your training site. Thanks.