doodle anxiety

[NMB]

I got my doodle, Sadie, when she was four months old from a pet store.  She arrived at the pet store from a puppy mill down south.  She was so adorable and I swear she picked me out.  She was also very sick with bilateral ear infections, bilateral pneumonia, giardia, urinary tract infection, and had been physically abused.  She has overcome so much, however there is lingering anxiety and the vet has said she could prescribe Prozac for her.  Does anyone have any experience with doodles with anxiety and extreme hypervigilance or being treated with antidepressant meds for this?  Thanks for feedback/comments.

[Glenn Massie]

I think after you review the website you will find there is no disagreement.
The specific link is: http://habitatoutfitters.com/heathyourdog/drugsdogs.html
I just checked and the site was working now. It may go down for a couple of hours due to the host doing system updates for the next few hours.
The reason for the How To Buy A Puppy link was to help educate anyone else who may be considering getting a puppy in hopes of avoiding problems.
The reply post from Sadie's owner stated: "The behaviorist said that she would like Prozac to be a last resort." I'm in agreement with the behaviorist on that point.
The reason for the mention of the developmental stages is so owners understand that this behavior may not have a physiological cause.
I'm not completely against drugs, but do believe they should be recommended only by a veterinary behaviorist for these types of matters. I'm in full agreement with you in that dogs should not be given a pill to make it all go away.
I am not a vet, only a trainer. I work with all types of behavior issues that many others choose not to work with. I have meet dogs on medication for behavioral issues, and have meet others that it has been recommended to. In my opinion few are in need of medication for behavior issues. Those that are considering it, my advise is to seek out a veterinary behaviorist since they specialize in these matters before giving your dog medication.
Since i have not meet Sadie nor do i know the specifics, i can only offer general advise. This is why I welcomed Saidie's owner to contact me via email.
I'm encouraged to see people seeking out information in order to help their best friends.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Excellent response. Thank you. Thank you also for not taking my questions personally and giving me a direct response. I am very interested in what you have to say and glad you joined DK. May I welcome you here! :)

It is my understanding and belief that most behavioral issues are really with the relationship between the dog and the owner, not just the dog.

In this situation if a drug is used it should be used only in combination with training. Training for the owner and the dog both and not used alone.

Her situation is unique and not a common behavioral problems most dog owners face. I had one similar a myself a few month ago--a very sick puppymill dog who I was having trouble rehabilitating but that is another story.
Again, welcome. We are glad to have you here.
Joanne

[Glenn Massie]

Thanks for your questions, they gave me a chance to explain the context for the my answers.

Generally stated, behavior issues can be rooted in the relationship with the owner and /or environmental influences. With no fault of the owners, they can end up with a dog that develops behavior issues because of the environment the first few weeks of the dog's life, or their previous life experience before they were re homed. .

Other dogs can develop separation anxiety, or guarding food , toys, rawhide's, etc... because of the relationship they have developed with the owners.

To resolve or improve behavior it is important to often change the behavior of the owners. It starts with owners becoming the role model for their dogs behavior.

[Ann]

My last dog was a chocolate lab and he lived to the age of 12. He had many many anxiety issues and my vet prescribed clomipramine for him when he was,well, I think he was a year old. He was on it for the rest of his life and he was fine!! He really needed it as his anxiety level was very high and I did not want him to be unhappy! Especially when we were not home and at work, he would howl and bite his tail and do all sorts of stuff to himself. He had OCD too. I would not have a problem giving my dog medication if the dog was having problems. And I can tell you, my dog changed and became relaxed and happy!! It was amazing how good it worked for him.

[LG & Sadie]

Good luck with whatever you decide. Go with your gut feeling...I think there is an inner sense when you are connected to an animal that you somehow just know what is best! Your Sadie is adorable!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

On the subject of using drugs "to make it all go away", let me relate my experience with my doodle Jack's atopic dermatitis. Totally different problem, but there are parallels to this situation, which is a doodle owner trying to decide on the best method of treating her dog's problem.
When Jack was first diagnosed, I was given treatment options. The first was a drug, Atopica, which is the veterinary version of the drug cyclosporine. This is a very powerful immuno-suppressant which is given to organ recipient patients to help prevent rejection of the new organ. It is very expensive and has some heavy duty side-effects, including leaving Jack open to all kinds of opportunistic infections. This drug would not cure anything, it would only suppress his symptoms; a lot like Prozac. He would have to be on it for life.
Another option was to do immunotherapy shots to desensitize his immune system to the allergens that cause him such misery. It takes a lot of time to take effect (up to 18 months) and requires a lot of work, including very expensive testing and follow-up visits and a very complicated schedule of dosages and intervals between shots. A pill would be a lot easier and faster.
And if the shots end up not helping him, we will have to go with the pills. But I chose to first try the treatment that is harder and more complicated, but has fewer side-effects and may actually help make him healthier rather than just covering up symptoms. The pills will always be there if we have to use them.
(Another option, which was suggested by well-meaning but misguided people on forums (not DK) was to feed him raw food, which of course cures everything. I discounted that option entirely, lol.)
I think sometimes the vet makes suggestions, and it's hard to know what the right thing is for you and your dog. It helps to get other opinions.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

This was not a question of " Make it all go away ". What I thought I read was that she wanted to make this dog's quality of life better--is there another way, in addition to what I am already doing, that is not working?

Sadie's owner has truly done some amazing things to try and help her dog, but her dog may need more help than the traditional help that is commonly being offered.

Problems never go away. We just get new ones. What the problem is, is the dog is not coping with any problem. Helping the dog, help herself, would be ideal here. How do we get to this point?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

What I read was this:
"She has overcome so much, however there is lingering anxiety and the vet has said she could prescribe Prozac for her. Does anyone have any experience with doodles with anxiety and extreme hypervigilance or being treated with antidepressant meds for this?"
This was me 3 years ago, trying to find out what side effects or problems there might be with a drug that the vet had said he could prescribe. Nobody had any experience with it or was able to tell me anything about how the drug affected their dogs, and it seems like the same thing here. None of us can tell her how the drug might affect her dog, how it might help and how it might hurt, which is all she really wants to know so she can make an informed decision. Lots of opinions, but not the info she needs. I'm sorry about that, I know how frustrating it is.
But it does seem that Sadie has made amazing progress.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

True, true, and true. :)

I guess the only way to find the answers and not our opinions would be to look at published scientific research.

Sadie's Mom, let us know. I hope you and Sadie find peace and happiness.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I don't have experience personally with antidepressant drugs in animals. They have been used successfully in dogs, though. I do know about these drugs however and the newer antidepressants, of which Prozac is the first, have a significantly lower side effect profile than the older medications. The antidepressants are the drugs of choice for anxiety. As always the benefit has to be compared with any downside. Prozac has been around for many years,however.There is simply no comparison between immunosuppresive drugs and antidepressants. Immunosuppressants predispose to infection, and cancer and are certainly to be avoided if at all possible. None of us know all the specifics of Sadie's situation except for her owner, who now has some opinions to sort through and who,in the end, I'm sure will make a good decision.