Purina pro plan sensitive puppy

[Lu]

This is what my vet has recommended for our pup's runny tummy along with fortiflora.  We have just had our first 24hours with solid poo.  Having read around here, I see Purina are not well liked.  Please could you experienced foodies comment on this ingredients list.

Thank you very much for your help

Lu

PRO PLAN PUPPY SENSITIVE SALMON & RICE

Ingredients

Salmon (23%), rice (22%), dehydrated salmon protein (15%), maize gluten, animal fat (protected by mixed tocopherols), maize, hydrolysed digest, beet pulp, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, sodium chloride, minerals.

EC Additive: Tocopherol rich extracts of natural origin.

Vitamin A: 21000 IU/Kg
Vitamin D3: 1600 IU/Kg
Vitamin E: 500 mg/Kg
Vitamin C: 100 mg/Kg

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

I'm sure Karen has all the why's and why-nots of this food and I have a doodle with some GI problems right now (Giardia) and chose to just give him boiled chicken, rice, pumpkin and yogurt. Also some canned Salmon, lean ground beef and some vegetables and fruits for variety. All natural, I know the sources and can control the additives. Just a thought if you are worried about this food. Yes, I homecook mostly so granted this isn't a stretch for me, but for you, to get you thru this phase, it may give you a sense of relief in that there are no worries about the food you're giving him.
Otherwise I don't know much about this food other than what has already been mentioned on the the FG.

[Lynne Fowler-Oodles of Doodles]

Purina was part of the major and extensive recalls of 2007 that killed many dogs and cats (including mine). It is a large commercial company whose bottom line is profits. They use cheap ingredients and fillers, their products have very little nutritional value and if fed for the long term, can damage the body and kill. Nice stools are formed by the heavy reliance on fillers. (Homecooking here, too!)


maize=Corn

Corn Gluten

I have not been able to locate an official definition of this product, but since it is contained in only one formulation of one manufacturer (Excel Chunks/Mini Chunks), I assume it is the same as "Corn Gluten Meal".

An inexpensive by-product of human food processing which offers very little nutritional value and serves mainly to bind food together. It is not a harmful ingredient but should be avoided simply for its poor nutritional value and quality.


Animal Fat

AAFCO: Obtained from the tissues of mammals and/or poultry in the commercial processes of rendering or extracting. It consists predominantly of glyceride esters of fatty acids and contains no additions of free fatty acids. If an antioxidant is used, the common name or names must be indicated, followed by the words "used as a preservative".

Note that the animal source is not specified and is not required to originate from "slaughtered" animals. The rendered animals can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Any kind of animal can be included: "4-D animals" (dead, diseased, disabled, or dying prior to slaughter), goats, pigs, horses, rats, misc. roadkill, animals euthanized at shelters, restaurant and supermarket refuse and so on.


Digest

May also appear as dried, or spray dried. Sometimes the type and part of animals used is specified, such as in "Chicken Digest", "Lamb Digest" or "Poultry Liver Digest"

AAFCO: Material which results from chemical and/or enzymatic hydrolysis of clean and undecomposed animal tissue. The animal tissues used shall be exclusive of hair, horns, teeth, hooves and feathers, except in such trace amounts as might occur unavoidably in good factory practice and shall be suitable for animal feed. .

A cooked-down broth made from specified, or worse, unspecified parts of specified or unspecified animals (depending on the type of digest used). If the source is unspecified (e.g. "Animal" or "Poultry", the animals used can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Any kind of animal can be included: "4-D animals" (dead, diseased, disabled, or dying prior to slaughter), goats, pigs, horses, rats, misc. roadkill, animals euthanized at shelters, restaurant and supermarket refuse and so on.


Bone Phosphate

Bone Phosphate is the residue of bones that have been treated first in a caustic solution then in a hydrochloric acid solution, and thereafter precipitated with lime and dried.

A highly processed feed-grade supplement to balance the calcium and phosphorus content of a product.


Salt

Also listed as Sodium Chloride. A colorless or white crystalline solid, chiefly sodium chloride, used extensively in ground or granulated form as a food seasoning and preservative. May also appear in ingredient list as "Iodized Salt" (iodine supplement added), "Sea Salt" (as opposed to salt mined from underground deposits) or "Sodium Chloride" (chemical expression).

While salt is a necessary mineral, it is also generally present in sufficient quantities in the ingredients pet foods include. Just like for humans, too much sodium intake is unhealthy for animals. In poor quality foods it is often used in large amounts to add flavor and make the food more interesting.


Beet Pulp - Beet pulp is the residue from sugar beets which has been cleaned, freed from crowns, leaves, and sand, and extracted in the process of manufacturing sugar. Controversial ingredient, believe to contribute to excessive red eye-staining. Added as an artificial stool-hardener. No nutritional value.

[Mommy2Max]

http://www.royalcanin.us/library/ingredients-nutrients-understandin...

That is Royal Canine's definition. It seems corn gluten and corn gluten meal are the same. Of course they try to paint a nice picture of it but, even their definition turns me off to the idea. Corn is a major U.S. industry - money talks.

As a side note - the documentary King Korn is very interesting.

"King Corn is a feature documentary about two friends, one acre of corn, and the subsidized crop that drives our fast-food nation. In King Corn, Ian Cheney and Curt Ellis, best friends from college on the east coast, move to the heartland to learn where their food comes from. With the help of friendly neighbors, genetically modified seeds, and powerful herbicides, they plant and grow a bumper crop of America's most-productive, most-subsidized grain on one acre of Iowa soil. But when they try to follow their pile of corn into the food system, what they find raises troubling questions about how we eat-and how we farm."

[Lynne Fowler-Oodles of Doodles]

BTW, many vets recommend this food because the training they received in vet school was provided by Purina and other large commercial food companies and sometimes vets even receive discounts by recommending certain foods. This Food Group is packed with much information on this topic.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Lynne pretty much covered the problems with the ingredients. Corn in any form should not be in your dog's diet, it is unhealthy, not well utilized, and is the number one contributor to the development to food allergies in dogs. Animal fat in the first five ingredients of a food has been linked to a risk of bloat in studies at Purdue University. Your vet doesn't even know what's in these foods, because nutrition is not really taught in veterinary school, just like it isn't really taught in medical school. In addition, Purina uses ingredients imported from China and other countries through food brokers, and the quality control in the supply chain is non-existent.
Fortiflora is also made by Purina, and is pure garbage. It is a brand new product that the salesmen are pushing to the vets, which is why we've suddenly had three questions about it in as many weeks. Here are a couple of links to other discussions about it:
http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/fortifl...
http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/yogurt-...
Marion Nestle has a PhD in human nutrition and is considered the foremost authority on the practices within the food industry as well as on nutrition. In recent years, she has researched the areas of pet nutrition and the pet food industry. She wrote the definitive book on the 2007 pet food recalls. Here is what she has to say about veterinary nutrition education:
"We know enough about medical education to know that doctors know hardly anything about nutrition. The same is true of veterinarians. Most veterinary colleges teach nutrition only minimally, meaning that veterinarians get their nutrition information from pet food companies."
http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/marion-...
Lu, don't take food advice from your vet. Take it from us. There are many reasons your pup might have runny stools, including parasites, which all of these doodle puppies seem to have. At any rate, there is nothing magical in the Purina products your vet recommended. And you don't have to homecook if you don't want to. There are lots of top-quality safe foods you can use for puppies with sensitive stomachs that will not risk your pup's long-term health the way Purina will. Look into California Naturals food. And use plain yogurt instead of Fortiflora, You will save some $, too.

[Lu]

California Naturals looks good but I can't get it here in the UK. This is what Ted was being fed before;


James Wellbeloved Puppy Lamb and Rice Kibble
Ingredients and analysis
Ingredients: Lamb meat meal, rice, ground whole barley, potato protein, lamb fat, whole linseed, lamb gravy, sugar beet pulp, alfalfa, sodium chloride, natural seaweed, chicory extract, omega 3 and omega 6 supplement, lysine, calcium carbonate, D,L-methionine, yucca extract, threonine, JWB special ingredients.

Contains: Min 26% lamb, min 26% rice, min 14% barley.

Typical analysis: Protein 30%, oil 15%, fibre 3%, ash 8.5%, omega-3 fatty acids 1.2%, omega 6 fatty acids 1.1%.


I'll keep looking for food in the UK.

I have been looking into Barf and one of Ted's brothers has homecooked food - she has passed on recipes and I will look into that in more detail too. I'd love to find a dry food over here though.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The previous food looks a lot better to me than the Purina. You could look into homecooking, but it also depends on the pup's age. It's much harder to make sure you are providing all the necessary nutrients for a young growing puppy than for an older dog. If you provide us with the names of some of the brands that are available to you, we can help you choose one.

[Melissa & Porter]

My 1 yr old dog's issues were not runny stools, but rather reflux (barfing bile every morning) and intense itchyness. I have had good luck with using California Natural Lamb and Rice formula. They make a chicken formula which he LOVED but the itchiness seemed worse. And I think they make a fish formula, which may be somewhat similar in concept to the Purina, but I don't think they make the fish version for puppies.

Anyway, his poop is small and solid on this food and the reflux is gone. The itchiness is better but not gone.

[Tammy & Gracie]

There are many DK members that homecook for sensitive tummy isuues. Look around the food group and see what Jane has been able to accomplish for Guiness in their quest for the right food!

[Lu]

These are the foods that I have found available over here. I notice that the James Wellbeloved one that he has been fed form the start is s'posed to help with loose stools. I'm really annoyed because I did find a commercially availbale rawfood that looked good but I can't find it.

Finest fish 4 puppies
Ingredients
Cod 34%, Potato 21.3%, Herring Meal 26.5%, Salmon Oil 9.6%, Beet Fibre 5.2%, Brewers Yeast 2.0%, Minerals 0.8%, Vitamins 0.6%

Nutritional Analysis
Protein 30%, Oil 14%, Ash 8%, Fibre 2%, Vitamin A 20,000 iu/kg, Vitamin D3 1,200 iu/kg, Vitamin E 130 iu/kg , copper 18 mg/kg

Calorific value 357 Kcal/100gm

Arden Grange:
Ingredients
Chicken Meal* (min 30%), Whole Grain Rice (min 19%), Whole Grain Maize, Chicken Fat*, Beet Pulp, Fresh Chicken (min 5%), Dried Brewers Yeast, Egg Powder, Fish Meal*, Linseed, Fish Oil*, Minerals, Vitamins, Nucleotides, Prebiotic FOS, Prebiotic MOS, Cranberry Extract, Chondroitin Sulphate, Glucosamine Sulphate, MSM, Yucca Extract. * Preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract.

Typical Analysis
Protein 26%, Oil 16%, Fibre 2.5%, Ash 7%, Moisture 8%, Omega 6 3.8%, Omega 3 0.69%, Vitamin A 20000 IU/kg, Vitamin D3 1350 IU/kg, Vitamin E 135 IU/kg, Calcium 1.4%, Phosphorous P 0.95%, Copper 22 mg/kg (as Cupric Sulphate).


The Natural dog food company:
All in One Puppy Chicken
Dried British Chicken (min 29%), Fresh British Chicken (min 26%), Brown Rice (min 20%), Mixed Vegetables and Herbs (min 9%), Whole Barley, Linseed, Refined Chicken Oil, Brewer’s Yeast.
Typical Analysis - Protein 25%, Oil 11.0%, Fibre 3%, Ash 6%


All in One Puppy Salmon
Fresh Scottish Salmon (min 24%), Dried Scottish Salmon (min 22%), Whole Brown Rice (min 21%), Whole Oats, Mixed Vegetables & Herbs (min 9%), Refined Chicken Oil, Whole Linseed, Brewers Yeast.
Typical Analysis - Protein 25%, Oil 11.5%, Fibre 2.5%, Ash 8%

Barking Heads Puppy days:

Ingredients:

Fresh British Chicken (min 22%), Dried Chicken (min 21%), Brown Rice (min 21%), Ground Oats, Dried Salmon (min 10%), Potato, Chicken Fat, Sunflower Oil, Dried Egg, Salmon Oil, Minerals, Dried Tomato, Dried Carrot, Natural Seaweed, Vitamins, Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM



Typical Analysis:

Protein 28%, Fat 18%, Fibre 2.5%, Ash 8%, Moisture 8%, Vitamin A 20000 iu/kg, Vit D3 1800 iu/kg, Vit E (Tocopherols) 690 iu/kg, Copper 11 mg/kg, Omega 6 (linoleic acid) 4.4%, Omega 3 (linolenic acid) 1%

Joe and Jacks:

Fresh chicken (23.9%)
Brown rice (22%)
Poultry meat meal (17%)
Potato (8%)
Oats (8%)
Chicken fat
Sugar beet pulp
Peas
Brewer’s yeast
Salmon oil
Minerals and vitamins
Seaweed
Analysis
Crude Protein 28%
Oil / Fat 15%
Crude Fibre 3%
Ash 8%
Vitamin A 20,000 iu/kg
Vitamin D3 1,350 iu/kg
Vitamin E 180iu/kg
Copper (as cupric sulphate) 11mg/kg


I'll keep trawling the pages of this really really useful food group and look forward to hearing any opinions on these foods that I have managed to find.

Thank you

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The Natural Dog Food Company looks very good, both formulas, as well as the Barking Heads Puppy Days food. But whether these will help with the loose stool problem, I don't know. Adding a tablespoon of plain yogurt and a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin should help. One thing in your favor is that the laws in Europe regarding dangerous food additives are much stricter than they are here. Please keep us posted on your progress.

[Lu]

Have just discovered that I can get Fromm Gold in this country although some reviews I have seen say that it isn't necessary identical to the stuff that you get over there. I see you guys use the 4* but I can't find any discussion on the Gold formulas. I must have a look at the supermarket websites, because I have never ever seen canned pumpkin here. Does fresh work the same?