English Goldendoodles

[Native New Yorker]

I was curious as to what the difference was between an English Goldendoodle and a  "regular" goldendoodle so I asked a breeder her opinion.  She provided this information and I wanted to know your opinions:

Europian or English Cream Goldendoodles are called this because the Golden Retriever is a Europian type and many of them have been imported here from Europe.  The breed standard for Golden Retriever's in Europe and other countries is different than in the US.  There are several differences and prices are higher because of these differences and the demand for them.

1. They have a calmer more easy going temperament.

2. They have a thicker more dense coat that doesn't seem to shed quite as much.

3. They have shorter legs and a broader head and a shorter broader nose and a stockier more dense chest and body build.  This gives the Goldendoodle a much more balanced look when combined with the long legged, long nosed, sleek poodle.  

4. They can be much lighter in color, thus the name English Cream.

When you combined these qualities in a Goldendoodle you get a wonderful Teddybear appearance in a VERY calm and extremely loving temperament.  This is just a little of what people love about the English Cream.  

I'm still researching but the more info I receive the harder it is to make my decision.  So far, I'm leaning towards a F1b mini Goldendoodle.  I was also leaning towards a red coated doodle but now.......Thanks in advance for your help.

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

Peri's best friend at daycare is a mini english cream goldendoodle. Beautiful!!! Just a lighter version of Lady P.
Not sure about the build, temperament. Hopefully another DKer will help you with that.

[Native New Yorker]

Thanks. I think Lady Peri is well proportioned and also cute (-:

[Carole (*Koda*Monty*Bindi)]

Our Rose is an F1 English Goldendoodle from Cliberdoodles and our Gaston-Cramer is an F1B Goldendoodle. Apples to oranges as far as appearance but that may due to the generations. I don't know much about the difference between English and American goldendoodles but April might be a good one to contact. I believe she breeds min's too. As far as personalities go both Rose and GC are very calm and extremely loving so not sure there's much of a difference there :).

[April Cliber]

Carole- As much as I love you, you're gonna get in trouble if you keep saying my name. :o)

Obama Mama- First I need to apologize, you emailed me while I was on vacation and I JUST realized that I haven't responded yet. Sorry!

In general, I would agree with what the breeder told you. There are ALWAYS exceptions and I love BOTH English and American GD's. I honestly do prefer the temperament of the English golden retriever, but don't necessarily prefer the English goldendoodle over the American goldendoodle. My English girl did outgrow her puppy stage faster & she sheds less then the American Goldens I've had. Usually English pups do have a stockier, thicker build, but you can find very thick American goldendoodles as well, it's just not quite as common.

The thing you need to remember is that in a litter of doodles, each will be different. Because they are mixed there are no guaranty's as far a structure and coat. Work with an experienced breeder and he/she will do their best to provide you with what you are looking for. You do need to keep an open mind though...

BTW, we (and our girls) are taking several months off and I won't have pups for at least 6-7 months. I just wanted to mention that so no one thinks I'm trying to sell a pup on the forum. :o)

[Carole (*Koda*Monty*Bindi)]

So I don't get in trouble :) let me clarify that what my intention was to say that you would be a good one to contact for "more information about english goldendoodles" and about "minis". I was bragging on your knowledge base not "C_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __s" :) :)

[April Cliber]

:o)

[1xar0x2rcx0li]

English Goldendoodle........Its clever marketing. And I mean that as a compliment. They have coined a term "English Goldendoodle" to set them apart from the rest, based on how they chose one of the two parents involved in the breeding. From a business standpoint, very well done. But to rebut your points:

1) Its not the fact that they are English that makes them a particular temperament, if you choose your American lab/golden properly the temperament should be the same. For a doodle breeding you should not be choosing a high strung lab/golden anyway. It is said all the time, it is not the breed generality that determines your future pups temperament, it is the actual temperament of the parent dog, which can be good or bad in any breed/line.

2) Never heard that, but thicker and denser hair has to come out sometime so I think they shed more, if you are referring to the parent English golden. If you are referring to the doodle shedding less again never heard that or seen it proven. Shedding is so variable in F1 generation, and much less so as you go up, that if this is your main concern get an F1b or higher generation, after which the poodle has so much more influence on coat that the difference between English or American golden grandparent is moot. The generation has more to do with a look than anything.

3) This all depends on the specific parent dog, not a breed generality. You can get the same look in an American lab/golden if that is what you want. Since you can breed to a poodle ranging from 5" tall to 30" tall, I think the choice of poodle has more influence on the pup size/ leg length than the minor difference in golden.

4) Yes the Golden can be lighter, but are the resulting doodles? If you want a light coloured doodle you can breed to a white poodle, or an apricot that has lightened to champagne (because it has two copies of the fading gene) which will pass on a very light colour to the pups.

Overall, clever marketing to get across their goals in their breeding program in terms of "a look" they are going for and communicating it in a succinct way. See, meant to be a compliment.

If you are paying more, it should be for temperament, health testing, early puppy socialization, and breeder support. Just my opinoin.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Amen to your opinion.

[April Cliber]

Good points Todd, but I will add one thing... :o)

A quality American Golden with breeding rights will typically cost between $1,200 and $3,000. A quality English Golden with breeding rights will typically cost between $3,500 and $6,000. That is why many breeders (including myself) raise the price on English doodles. The cost of producing them is more... The public is demanding them, so breeders are producing them.

[Jacque Reynolds]

:o) That actually proves Todd's point...good marketing.

[1xar0x2rcx0li]

I undertand recouping costs, like ALD breeders who pay a small fortune for their imported doodle and then have to charge "the going rate" to keep out of the red. Is it the flight cost only, or are the actual breeders in Europe charging more then their American counterparts for the equivalent health tested Golden? I have not researched importing a dog so I dont know. Is it more cost effective to import one male, and use him with multiple poodle females to have English litters, rather than importing many english females for the same number of litters. If overhead cost is the issue.

[April Cliber]

Both. The flight is expensive and the breeders are charging much more. Even English breeders that live in America and Canada charge much more. If you can manage to sweet talk an English breeder into selling you (a doodle breeder) a quality English retriever with breeding rights and health tested parents, you expect to pay a hefty price. There are a few doodle breeders that are producing English litters now as well. They are easier to purchase from, but you will still pay a high price. I have considered having an English litter with my female so that I can keep a couple females.

Yes, it would be more cost effective to import one male, but I prefer retrievers as moms. Before anyone gets mad at me, let me say that POODLES ARE GREAT MOMS!! :o) I just prefer the low maintenance coat of a retriever and a they tend to have a little larger litters. I'd rather have 3 retrievers and one poodle then vice versa. It's only a personal preference. :o)